Producer Marina Henke inspects the cards and components that make up the climate change board game “Daybreak.” Credit: Taylor Quimby

When designer Matt Leacock decided to make a board game about climate action, he knew he wanted to make it – first and foremost – fun to play. “If we sold anything as an educational game… people would run screaming and running for the hills,” he told us.

But can simulating the climate crisis really make for a good Friday night with your friends? What are the limits to gamifying social issues as complex as global warming?

In this episode, we speak with Matt about what it took to design an entertaining game about one of the most challenging topics of our time, and enlist a few friends to playtest his game: “Daybreak.”

Featuring Matt Leacock, with appearances from NHPR’s Marina Henke, Nick Capodice and Hannah McCarthy.

ADDITIONAL MATERIALS

Read game designer Matt Leacock’s 2020 NYT opinion piece about his game, Pandemic, and what it says about social cooperation during an actual pandemic.

One of Daybreak’s inspirations was “The 100% Solution” by Solomon Goldstein-Rose. Here’s his TED Talk about building a new global electricity system.

For more insight into how Daybreak was made, check out Matt and co-designer Matteo Menapace’s design diaries.

A climate scientist/board gamer’s break down of the science and gameplay of Daybreak

Listen to Civics 101’s great episode on civics-centered board games.

SUPPORT

To share your questions and feedback with Outside/In, call the show’s hotline and leave us a voicemail. The number is 1-844-GO-OTTER. No question is too serious or too silly.

Outside/In is made possible with listener support. Click here to become a sustaining member of Outside/In.

Follow Outside/In on Instagram or join our private discussion group on Facebook.

CREDITS

Host: Nate Hegyi

Reported, produced, and mixed by Taylor Quimby

Editing by Justine Paradis and Marina Henke

Our staff includes Felix Poon, and Jessica Hunt

Executive producer: Taylor Quimby

Rebecca Lavoie is NHPR’s Director of On-Demand Audio

Music by Blue Dot Sessions

Outside/In is a production of New Hampshire Public Radio

download a transcript

Audio Transcript

Note: Episodes of Outside/In are made as pieces of audio, and some context and nuance may be lost on the page. Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.

Nate Hegyi: This is Outside/In, a show where curiosity and the natural world collide. I’m Nate Hegyi.

Matt Leacock: I think we were very newly married or just before we were married. Um, Donna played a lot of board games with me, and I tried a lot out with her. And we… we determined that there were certain games we needed to avoid.

This is board game designer Matt Leacock.

He’s on the quiet side, he loves a nice button-up. You get the impression he’s not big on confrontation.

But anybody who’s played a game of Monopoly knows: board games can be competitive.

Matt Leacock: Um, when you play games, you're supposed to be in this kind of like they call it a magic circle, where the stuff within the game only matters to the game and, uh, not supposed to bleed out into real life.

But we found that that was not the case. Uh, you know, in some games, competition becomes so fierce that it would bleed out into, you know, emotions would get, uh, uh, heightened, let's say.

Mux creeps in [Blue Dot Sessions - And So It Goes]

Taylor Quimby: Yeah. Any table flipping?

That’s producer and board game aficionado Taylor Quimby.

Matt Leacock: No, it didn't flip any tables. But you sometimes you get that… that cold stare.

[mux swells and sits at bed level]

Nate Hegyi: So in those early days of his marriage, Matt found a different genre of game to play with Donna.

Games where instead of facing off, they were on the same side of the table.

Matt Leacock: We played our first cooperative game, and we realized that it didn't matter if we won or lost. In fact, some of our losses were really epic, but we lost together.

This discovery set Matt on a quest to design his own cooperative board game.

[mux begins to fade]

This was way back in the Bush era, by the way. Lil Jon was at the top of the charts, Saddam Hussein was still alive, and a new virus was in the news.

Archival news clip: “This week saw the galloping rise of SARS, severe acute respiratory syndrome, and as new cases spread and quarantines expand, and the disease spreads…

So Matt themed his game on something that sounded scary, scientific… but also kind of exciting.

A pandemic.

Taylor Quimby: Why do you think, uh, you know, a pandemic made for a good antagonist in this type of game?

Matt Leacock: It's unfeeling. It's uncaring. It's something you can all get behind. No one's really going to root for the disease, as it were. And it's global. So the scale is there.

Nate Hegyi: Now you may not have heard of it… but Matt’s game, Pandemic, was a massive hit. If it were an album, it would be certified triple platinum. Want to play in Icelandic? Arabic? Ukrainian? You can DO that, because it’s been translated into more than 30 languages.

But… when the actual pandemic struck in 2020 – Matt was horrified. Not just by the virus, but by the social division it ushered in.

Matt Leacock: I found that really strange. Um, the fact that people were arguing about this kind of stuff, it was not something that I had imagined. Obviously, it's not in the game. Um, yeah. I thought this would bring people together more than it would separate.

[pause]

So during the lockdowns, Matt came up with an idea for a new game.

One he hoped could tackle another complex, global problem, and really bring people together.

A board game.. About climate change.

[mux creeps in - Blue Dot Sessions, Plum King]

That sounds fun, right?

[mux swells]

Today on Outside/In - we’re setting the table for a board game about an unlike subject. Can simulating the climate crisis make for a fun Friday night with your friends?

Matt Leacock: I'm not trying to say that everybody can learn how to play this, and they'll be able to solve climate change. But the difference is it's a model that allows you to kind of experiment with. And the reality is we've only got one shot at this.

And what – if anything – can a board game teach us about working together?

Taylor Quimby: So… do we feel like we're gonna win this game?

Nick Capodice: No.

Hannah McCarthy: No

Nick Capodice: I feel like we might lose.

Get ready to play… after a break.

[mux swells and fades]

BREAK

This is Outside/In, a show where curiosity and the natural world collide. I’m Taylor Quimby.

When I was growing up, board games were like Christmas specials. Monopoly, Sorry, Chutes and Ladders; everybody played the same brutal classics, most of which predated the end of World War II.

Monopoly commercial from 1981: Monopoly has been bringing people together for almost 50 years. That’s how long we’ve been wheeling and dealing together, building hotels together, and going to jail together…

That changed in the 1990’s, when a German company released The Settlers of Catan. It was the beginning of what people call “the board game renaissance.”

[mux in - Blue Dot Sessions, Merg Station]

The number of new titles exploded. Hobby stores and tabletop cafes popped up in cities from Brooklyn to Boise.

This new generation of games has little in common with your grandaddy’s Sunday night scrabble sessions.

They’re big, nerdy, convoluted – and easily lampooned by shows like Parks and Recreation.

Parks and Rec clip: [Ben] “Play an action card, build a bell tower in your citadel.” [Other character] “My shaman casts a toyber spell on your prosperity tile. Looks like someone’s out of resource gems. Haha.”

Now I can tell you… this is barely an exaggeration.

I mean, I once bought a game that weighed thirty-five pounds. The rulebook had more than 80 pages.

Parks and Rec clip: Move my abbot to the ocean hex, which moves my brinksman to the devil’s lair, which pushes my farmer - yes my humble farmer - directly into the central cone.

[mux swells and sits at bed level]

Part of the joy for me is that you can take virtually any subject and distill it into a thematic set of rules, tokens, and mechanics.

You can play games where you’re a samurai, a pilot trying to land a plane, or a mustachioed Victorian captain of industry.

But no matter how outlandish they can get – there are certain subjects that smack of an ulterior motive.

Matt Leacock: Our goal with the game, we didn't want to make broccoli, right. You know, like here, learn about the climate crisis by playing this game. That was absolutely 100% not our intent.

Again, this is board game designer Matt Leacock.

When Matt and a collaborator started conceptualizing a game about climate change, he sensed this would be their biggest challenge.

Matt Leacock: We knew that if we sold anything as, or tried to pitch anything as a “educational game” that people would run screaming and running for the hills. I mean, educational games have a really bad rap, and I think rightly so. Many of them are just glorified flashcards.

I totally get this. Remember playing math Jeopardy in middle school? Or vocab trivia?

If those games were fun, it was only compared to a pop quiz.

To Matt, educational games like this might be described as quote, “broccoli dipped in chocolate.”

Taylor Quimby: Why do you think that is? Is it the topic or do you think it's the design?

Matt Leacock: I think it's the design. I mean, game design is really, it can be pretty tough. It's extremely time consuming. It requires a lot of research. And really good game design has dynamics and systems in it that map to real world systems. It's far more easy to just have like a take a game off the shelf and kind of throw some facts on it and say, hey, I've got this educational game, but that that doesn't really give its players what's best, which is like, um, an opportunity to kind of experiment within a system in order to kind of like, better learn how it operates. And that requires a, I don't know, a bunch of work. And I'm not sure that the people who are creating those things really have the resources to do that right now.

[mux swells and sits at bed level - Blue Dot Session, Camphor Kingdom]

But here’s the irony (or one of them, anyway): In order to make a game that didn’t seem educational, Matt would have learn everything he could about climate change.

Then he’d have to wrangle that knowledge, and turn it into a system of cards, cubes, and tokens.

Frankly, it’s a daunting task.

Like a lot of people, years of climate news had put Matt on an emotional see-saw of hope and fear.

Matt Leacock: Yeah, I think a little bit overwhelmed and confused. I didn't really understand, um, the climate crisis as a system. I knew it was like a really big, dire situation. Um, but I couldn't see a picture of, like, what the solution was and what we should be doing. Uh, you know, in the big picture.

And so, uh, initially it started reading books about it. And that was really like entering the Valley of despair, as it were. I mean, you know, there's some pretty bleak things about the topic.

But I also found some books that were really talking about a holistic solution.

[mux swells and fades]

One of those books was called “The 100% solution.” And though the title seems, perhaps, a tad overconfident – it was exactly the BIG PICTURE view that Matt was looking for.

Matt Leacock: And it turns out that that book was authored by, uh, someone who enjoys board games. I'm not sure that's a coincidence.

This book – it’s kind of a road map to decarbonizing the global economy.

It was written by former Massachusetts state rep and longtime climate activist Solomon Goldstein-Rose.

Here he is in a TED Talk from 2021.

Solomon Goldstein-Rose: Our project is not changing the current global electricity system. Our project is building a NEW global electricity system. Political action that tinkers around the current system will never get us where we need to be by 2050. Arguments about which sources of clean electricity we use are unehelpful… we need all of them: hydro, solar, wind, nuclear, advanced nuclear, advanced geothermal, mandates for carbon capture on remaining fossil plants…

[mux swells and sits at bed level - Blue Dot Sessions, Helvetica]

Matt and his co-designer loved this kitchen sink approach.

So they used it to build a miniature model of the carbon cycle.

They made paper prototypes with carbon cubes, complex ways of buying and selling energy, and started integrating all of these different green technologies they were discovering.

And they started talking to more people. They got feedback from the folks from big climate-action organizations like Project Drawdown.

They even got a 30-minute zoom meeting with renowned activist and author Bill McKibben.

Matt Leacock: And then we actually worked with some of our advisors to playtest. So some of the authors of the books that we read were kind enough to accept prototypes and play them.

Taylor Quimby: I know Bill McKibben was listed in the thank yous. Is he a board gamer?

Matt Leacock: I don't think he's a big board gamer. I'm not sure we've gotten a chance to get him to play.

[mux swells and fades]

And these conversations really did shift the shape of what they were doing. They were literally – a game changer.

Matt Leacock: The feedback we got was, you know, it's not just about technologies, uh, that it's about communities. And we were just basically tackling mitigation without adaptation, to use the lingo.

So they added features to make the game less abstract, and more human-centered.

They also contended with disagreements about technology.

Matt Leacock: I think if you talk to any the Germans, they're upset about the nuclear, uh, solutions being, um, characterized as too, too green.

Others took issue with the fact that they were including untested geo-engineering solutions in the game, like pumping sulpher into the stratosphere to reflect sunlight.

Matt Leacock: but we really did want to put solutions in the game that were not necessarily popular, so that you could play the game, and then we would model why they weren't perfect - and you could learn about what there limitations were just be playing the game.

But eventually… after all these conversations, two years, and dozens of prototypes… they were satisfied.

All it needed was a name.

Matt Leacock: I'm not sure who suggested daybreak, but as soon as we heard it, we really liked it. First of all, it focuses on, uh, the sun and solar power.

[mux creeps in - Blue Dot Sessions, A Steady Shape]

But it's also like the breaking of any day, and Dawn. And it feels like some sort of hopeful message.

[mux swells and fades]

Taylor Quimby: So that’s the player board… [shakes components]

Marina Henke: Sounds like a lot of pieces… Oh boy.

Daybreak came out in late 2023, but I only heard about it a few months ago. And while I wanted to like it – it would seem off-brand not to – I was skeptical.

So I got a copy, read the rulebook, and brought my colleague Marina Henke into the studio to take a look.

Taylor Quimby: Ready for this?

Marina Henke: So excited…

This was a tactical choice, by the way. Marina has been very outspoken to me about her dislike of board games.

Marina Henke: Yeah, I love games. You know, like I was a camp counselor. Love of fire. Like a like a campfire game. I think the second I see all the little pieces, there's something in me just shuts down.

Even still, she had to admit the box is pretty attractive.

Marina Henke: I've been talking about Jetsons a lot on the show lately, but it gives me some Jetsons vibes.

Taylor Quimby: Yeah, it's very hopeful looking, right? Like this doesn't scream, “I am a game about the climate crisis.”

Marina Henke: No, I think if I were to see this game in a like a bookstore, I would say this is some semi-educational game about like urban planning.

[mux - Blue Dot Sessions, And So It Goes]

I don’t want this to sound like the Climate Cones of Dunshire, so I’ll spare you most of the fiddly details.

But here’s the gist.

In Daybreak, up to 4 players players take on the role of global powers: The US, China, Europe, or the intriguing titled “Majority World,” representing pretty much everyone else.

Every player has a personal board in front of them that contains all of the energy their region produces, the emissions they make from cars, agriculture and so on – and as the game progresses, little tokens that represent communities that are suffering.

Every round, players draw and play cards from this giant deck.

Each one features a technological or social innovation that can help reduce emissions, build more green energy, or keep your communities safe.

Marina Henke: Financial risk regulations. Women and girls education. Major nuclear program.

Taylor Quimby: Green steel.

Marina Henke: I don't think I even know about green steel.

[Mux fades]

One neat thing here is that every card has a little QR code. Scan it with your phone, and you can read more about the real-world technology behind it.

Marina Henke: This is like, this is interesting. This is it. Trying to do both of being about the game. And also it's a little bit educational right there.

Taylor Quimby: Yeah. You don't have to ever open one of these up. But if you want to it's there. I think there’s even a section if you get to the bottom that’s like, “how to take action,” on every card.

[mux swells and fades]

Like the artwork, this part of the game feels fun and hopeful.

But then… at the end of the round… players add up all of their emissions and dump carbon cubes onto the board.

Marina Henke: the red thermometer on the right side does not, uh, give an aura of calm, calm, serenity.

Taylor Quimby: No, no, it does not.

And as the temperature rises, players draw an ever increasing number of “crisis cards”... A disturbing onslaught of disasters that put everybody’s communities at risk, and make it harder to win the game.

Marina Henke: [reading cards] Humanitarian Aid Overwhelm. Wow yeah, “this is an ongoing effect. Do not discard this card until you have met the conditions below.” Economic recession… floods… droughts.

Taylor Quimby: Yeah. Real classic some of these.

Marina Henke: Oh man, Pandemic. Woof. Global crop failures, water pollution. Democracy erosion. God, Taylor.

[music creeps in - Blue Dot Sessions, Green Legal Pad]

Taylor Quimby: I’m telling you, this is a great Saturday night. I’m telling you.

And while I’m skipping a fair number of things, that’s basically it.

If you can lower your emissions enough, you win.

But if the temperature rises two full degrees celsius, you lose.

If even one player has too many communities in crisis, you also lose.

Or if you just take too long - you guessed it. You lose.

Even for a seasoned board gamer, I have to admit it sounds a little bleak.

For Marina, even more so.

Marina Henke: Ok, here’s my takeaway… is that I'm not any more excited for me, myself and I to play this game. But I do think this is a cool game… [laughs] I do think this is a cool game that could be fun if you really liked games. Yeah.

Taylor Quimby: Totally fair.

Marina Henke: Okay.

Taylor Quimby: Well I will, um, I will play it with some people who like games.

Marina Henke: And I can't wait to hear about it. I love, I love your love for board games, I really do.

That’s after a break.

Taylor Quimby: Do me a favor. Give those a shuffle. You know, you can give those a riffle shuffle. Yeah. I will do the big honker deck.

[mux in - Blue Dot Sessions, Ariquipe]

This is Outside/In, a show where curiosity and the natural world collide.

Hannah McCarthy: Taylor… this looks so depressing.

Taylor Quimby: It's not! It's not. Well, iit's only depressing if you lose. I think I mean, we're about to find out.

So a few months ago, I sat down with Nick Capodice and Hannah McCarthy – two of my regular board game buddies – to do a trial run of the climate change board game called Daybreak.

Nick Capodice: Daybreak! Wow, it looks really spare.

If you recognize these two voices, that’s probably because they’re the hosts of another NHPR podcasts – Civics 101. They’ve done their own board episodes, and we’ll put a link in the show notes. Point is, they’re hardcore nerds like me.

And once I explained the rules, and we toasted a glass of wine, they were ready to get to work.

The climate wasn’t going to fix itself.

Hannah McCarthy: I'm going to work on dirty electricity phase out right away.

Taylor Quimby: You’re thinking…

Hannah McCarthy: Because I am a MASSIVE contributor to dirty electricity.

Nick Capodice: Right off the bat, I know, like, I want to get some grids down. I want to tuck some grids to do some clean plants...

Board games share a common language. Play enough of them and you can pick up a new one pretty quickly.

Which is to say, the three of us experienced gamers were feeling pretty cocky.

[mux - Blue Dot Sessions, CorneratCicero]

But halfway through our play, things weren’t looking good.

Nick Capodice: Forest fire, no!

Taylor Quimby: Forest fires.

Nick Capodice: We lose three forests.

Hannah McCarthy: UUghh!

The planet’s forests were on fire. Oceans were acidifying. And as the temperature got higher, we were seeing climate-related feedback loops.

Nick Capodice: [the sound of a dice rolling] Fish kill.

Taylor Quimby: Oh boy.

Nick Capodice: The oceans are getting a little tart.

And the people of the US – played by me – were in rough shape. I spent so much time reducing emissions, I hadn’t really prepared for all the disasters.

Taylor Quimby: So do we feel like we're gonna win this game?

Hannah and Nick: No, no,

Nick Capodice: I feel like we might lose.

Hannah McCarthy: Yeah. I feel like we might lose.

Nick Capodice: There's too much heat. There's no oceans, there's no forests.

For me, someone who has been working on a show about the outdoors for nearly a decade, this was all super fascinating.

Nick Capodice: All these great plans. I had to just have a massive solar program. Doesn't get rid of my emissions. I mean, it just gets rid of it. Just changes how my energy is created.

Daybreak does a great job illustrating the complicated trade-offs of the green transition. The sort of stuff we’ve done stories about on Outside/In.

Just like in real life, you’re working with limited resources… and a ticking clock.

Taylor Quimby: Well, it goes to show you, like we've all our our energy grids are super green… but…

Nick Capodice: Doesn't matter.

But from a gamer perspective, this might sound decidedly un-fun. Losing a board game about climate change hits different than losing a game about baby dragons.

You can practically hear us giving up in the tape.

Taylor Quimby: Well it’s not over yet. Daybreak could still… break.

Hannah McCarthy: Alright.

Nick Capodice: Alright.

But the irony here is that this is exactly how it should feel in the middle of a game like this.

If it were too easy, you’d pat yourself on the back for a round or two… but then it would get boring. And suspiciously “educational,” an exercise in optimistic greenwashing.

In this way, there’s a strange parallel between climate change and a good game. You have to move through the despair to get to the joy.

Hannah McCarthy: I’m so nervous.

Taylor Quimby: Ok, this is it. Last one…

And that’s exactly what happened.

The hopelessness that we felt half-way through, was proportional to the disbelief we felt when… against all odds…

Taylor Quimby: We did it, guys.

Hannah McCarthy: We did it!

Nick Capodice: We did it. I did not think we were going to. I really didn't.

[mux]

I’d love to tell you that, in winning the game, we discovered the one true path towards solving the climate crisis.

But in the end, it was a kitchen sink approach: a little bit of everything.

Hannah McCarthy: China eliminated all industry emissions.

Nick Capodice: How did you get rid of so many factories?

Hannah McCarthy: Electrification initiatives and alternative refrigerants everybody…

Taylor Quimby: I'll tell you. It all comes back down to refrigeration.

Nick Capodice: I actually really like this game.

Hannah McCarthy: I do too.

And even though we didn’t bother looking up any QR codes as we played – there did seem to be a bigger lesson at play.

Here’s what Nick said in our post-victory debrief.

Nick Capodice: I'm somebody who sort of has willful blindness towards climate change because I'm scared of it. And I'm just it's like taxes. Like, I just don't want to my teeth. You know, like, I don't want to think about it. It'll be something that I worry about in the future. I'll take care of it. But the point is, what I'm walking away from playing this game is that all of us were watching each other, and everything felt completely impossible doing it on our own. But if we had the mentality of we are all, we all win together or we lose together, and we have to always help each other as much as possible. That's a good thing to walk away with.

[mux - Blue Dot Sessions, Helvetica]

For Daybreak’s designer Matt Leacock, this is exactly the reaction he was hoping for.

In the months after it was released in late 2023, reviews started pouring in.

Review clip 1: The way it models systems is fascinating…

Review clip 2: I cannot find a single to criticize in Daybreak…

And they were on the whole really positive.

Review clip 3: We finished our first game and I was like, man I want to try that puzzle again!

Review clip 4: Daybreak is a brilliant game, it’s a great…

Review clip 5: And it never feels overly educational, it doesn’t feel like you’re being lectured to, it feels like you’re playing a really fun game and you’re learning something on the side…

[mux swells and fades]

Even more validating to Matt, has been the dialogue Daybreak has started.

For example, a climate scientist slash gamer posted an 8 page review online. She wrote of the game: “The world is a better place because it exists.”

Matt Leacock: the level of discourse just seems so much higher than I'm used to, uh, in those forums. It's been really fun to see that happening, and people talking about the game and also about climate and how it's represented. So I've been delighted by that as well.

But the timing has been complicated. Because if you make a game about the real world – real world circumstances can change how you see the game.

The same month that Daybreak was released, President Trump was re-elected. And since then, the US has been backsliding on virtually every climate front imaginable.

Matt Leacock: I think I expected it, um, what would you say? Like, shocked, but not surprised, something like that?

And suddenly, Daybreak – which assumes players are working towards a common goal, has become somewhat utopian…Because baked in, is the idea that world powers – like the US – are prioritizing climate action.

Taylor Quimby: So I wonder what you think about how how that compares to the real world and whether or not that's an asset or a drawback that at least in this way, you know, it's it's maybe more, um, maybe more, maybe more optimistic than, than the newspapers are right now.

Matt Leacock: Yeah, I think that's true, especially right now. Um, we didn't want to be pollyannaish about it, but we also did want to paint a possible future where, um, you know, what If things went like this? And then also, you can compare, you know, the reality of today, uh, to the game and recognize that gap.

[mux in - Blue Dot Sessions, Green Legal Pad]

Yeah, we made it optimistic. And it may be unrealistic, especially through today's lens, but it doesn't mean that this kind of thing isn't possible in the future. And maybe it's a call for action.

There’s another critique of Daybreak that I’ve seen from some gamers: that’s it’s too random.

Hardcore strategy nerds prefer a game without too much chance. They want to win on the basis of skill, not on drawing the right cards, or the result of a lucky die roll.

But Matt sees chance in Daybreak as a feature, not a bug.

Matt Leacock: Some people have approached it with a singular mindset about how to win… and they might consider the game as “random” because they’re not getting the cards they feel they need.

But it's really about like, okay, well, how am I going to do what I need to do and what opportunities I have in front of me?

For Matt, If there’s a lesson in Trump’s election, it’s that climate activists have to work with the hand they have… not the one they might have wanted.

You know, you don't live in the ideal world. You you live in this world. There are certain things that are possible and certain things that are not. So what are you going to do about it?

[mux swells and fades]

Despite my love of board games, I’m not actually a fan of societies move towards “gamification.”

I don’t need retail points at every place I shop, or get “badge alerts” from my healthcare company.

And one could argue that maybe there are certain topics that are too serious, or too sensitive to be turned into tokens and cards.

But in a world where climate change can feel too big to tackle, breaking it down into smaller pieces feels wise.

[mux in - Blue Dot Sessions, And So It Goes]

And in the end, some points aren’t just points. They’re just another way to tell a story.

Nick Capodice: Yeah. There are so many games out there that I have played and you have played and you have played that are about armies and war and destruction.

So here we are nations focused on solving climate change. I don't see a downside to that.

ROLL CREDITS