A Map to the Next World
Volunteers plant native vegetation along the banks of Battle Creek at the Bear River Massacre site in Preston, Idaho. Credit: Russel Albert Daniels.
“In the last days of the fourth world I wished to make a map for those who would climb through the hole in the sky.”
That’s the first line of the poem “A Map to the Next World” by Muscogee writer and former U.S. Poet Laureate Joy Harjo. It’s a piece that’s inspired Aquinnah Wampanoag writer Joseph Lee as he undertakes one of journalism's most nuanced beats: covering hundreds of unique tribal communities.
Sometimes those stories fit into neat narratives – about how tribes are restoring nature and winning back land – but that’s not always the case. What's it like covering Indigenous communities responding and adapting to climate change? And how are these tribes thinking about their futures? We talk to Joseph Lee about some of the stories he’s covered, and his own attempt to make a map to the next world.
Featuring Joseph Lee.
ADDITIONAL MATERIALS
“A Map to the Next World,” is the title of a poem by Muscogee poet Joy Harjo.
Nothing More of This Land is a new book from award-winning journalist Joseph Lee, about Indigenous identity and the challenges facing Indigenous people around the world.
Read Joseph Lee’s reporting on:
According to the Aquinnah Wampanaog Tribe, Moshup, who was a giant, would wade into the ocean, pick up a whale, and fling it against the Aquinnah Cliffs to kill it to feed the people. The blood from these whales stained the clay banks red. Credit: William Waterway via Wikimedia Commons (CC BY-SA 3.0)
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CREDITS
Host: Nate Hegyi
Reported, produced, and mixed by Felix Poon
Editing by Taylor Quimby.
Our staff includes Justine Paradis, Marina Henke, and Jessica Hunt.
Executive producer: Taylor Quimby
Rebecca Lavoie is NHPR’s Director of On-Demand Audio.
Music by Blue Dot Sessions and Walt Adams.
Outside/In is a production of New Hampshire Public Radio.
Submit a question to the “Outside/Inbox.” We answer queries about the natural world, climate change, sustainability, and human evolution. You can send a voice memo to outsidein@nhpr.org or leave a message on our hotline, 1-844-GO-OTTER (844-466-8837).
Audio Transcript
Note: Episodes of Outside/In are made as pieces of audio, and some context and nuance may be lost on the page. Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
Nate Hegyi: You’re listening to Outside/In, a show where curiosity and the natural world collide. I’m Nate Hegyi.
[MUX IN: Vulcan Street, Blue Dot Sessions]
162 years ago, there was a massacre of Indigenous people in present-day Idaho. The US army killed hundreds of Northwestern Shoshone men, women, and children.
Brian Parry: For many years I would come here with my grandparents and my mother and all our family quite frankly, and we’d go down there and everytime we would get there grandma would start to cry.
This is Brian Parry. He was speaking at the Bear River Massacre Commemoration Ceremony in 2021.
Brian Parry: I didn’t really know why except that there was a feeling of unrest in that valley down there. It’s like the people who died there were saying this wasn’t fair.
Places like these – sites of massacres – hold a power. they hold the echo of tragedy… and maybe, the potential for healing.
Brian Parry: I think that is what’s pushed us to get this land back to build this interpretive center, to finally put those spirits to rest.
[MUX SWELL AND OUT]
In 2018 the Northwestern Band of the Shoshone Nation bought back over 500 acres of their ancestral land, at the site of the massacre.
Joseph Lee, who’s a freelance climate and indigenous affairs reporter wrote about the land purchase.
Joseph Lee: they have embarked on this really ambitious project to not just reclaim the land and find some healing in this place where something really, really terrible happened.
But actually, um, work the land and, um, do a lot of environmental restoration work,
[MUX IN: Things to Sort Out, Walt Adams]
Nate Hegyi: The Bear River flows into the disappearing Great Salt Lake.
And so the restoration work the tribe is doing here in this section of Shoshone land is a pretty massive undertaking. They’re removing the water-guzzling trees planted by farmers and ranchers, and replacing them with native trees – restoring the landscape to what it used to be.
According to the tribe, this will translate to over 4 billion gallons of water, every…year. returned to the Great Salt Lake
This idea that it’s a win-win…That giving land back to tribes is ALSO good for the environment …
Sometimes that’s true.
Joseph Lee: There's a huge amount of evidence that when indigenous people manage land, they manage it better than non-Indigenous people.
But that’s not always the whole story… Sometimes, Joseph says, the truth is way more complicated.
Joseph Lee: people see that like, oh, this is a good thing for everybody, let's do that. But if the tribe says, you know, hey, could we build a housing complex here?
I think usually people look at that and say, well, no, it was a forest like, you know, it should be a forest.
[MUX IN: Pembroke Pines, Walt Adams]
Joseph Lee: you know, land back is a right. And indigenous people have a right to land that was taken from them. And it's really up to them what they want to do with it.
[MUX SWELL]
<<NUTGRAPH>>
Nate Hegyi: Today on Outside/In, we’re complicating the narrative with Aquinnah Wampanoag journalist Joseph Lee.
From the Alaskan tundra, to the wealthy suburbs of Long Island. He talks about what it’s like covering Indigenous communities, and the different ways tribes are thinking about their futures… in a changing… world.
Joseph Lee: And for indigenous people especially, you're not just talking about, you know, land you might have lived on your whole life. You're talking about land that your people have lived on forever.
Nate Hegyi: Stay tuned.
<<PREROLL>>
Nate Hegyi: This is Outside/In. I’m Nate Hegyi. The media tends to lump Native Americans all together. Like they’re some unified body. But that is NOT the case.
Take the Crow and Northern Cheyenne. They have neighboring reservations in Montana, where I used to work as a reporter. When I was there, I found out that one tribe is pro-coal and one is anti-coal.
Point is, even though they’re neighbors, these are sovereign nations… with their own unique history and points of view.
And remember – there are 572 other federally-recognized tribes in America.
So when I spoke with freelance reporter Joseph Lee, I wanted to ask him about one of his former titles: Senior Indigenous Affairs Fellow at Grist.
Nate Hegyi: which on one hand, like not a lot of news outlets dedicate any specific resources to indigenous stories. But on the other hand, it feels like it's. Isn't it kind of like an impossible job to cover literally hundreds of different tribes and cultures all across the country?
Joseph Lee: Yeah, 100%. I think a lot of people think that it feels like a very specific beat, you know. Oh, that that seems like this niche thing. You know, indigenous affairs, writing about tribes. But when you really look at it,
Joseph Lee: you know, that'd be like saying I cover America, right? You know, you're talking about everything within that, whether that's politics, culture, environment, tech, all these other things are sort of encompassed within this giant beat.
Nate Hegyi: How do you choose which stories to tell?
Joseph Lee: Yeah, that's a great question.
Joseph Lee: I'm looking for stories that maybe complicate sort of the common American narrative about tribes and indigenous people
Joseph Lee: Whether that's, you know, not everybody in the tribe is going to agree on what to do, or people in tribes don't always get along.
Joseph Lee: You know, I think from the outside, people think, you know, indigenous communities can be monolithic or everybody agrees or it's like everybody's sort of, you know, united. But I think anybody who's, you know, been in a tribe or covered tribes knows that, like, for example, tribal politics are some of the messiest, you know, thing. You know, it makes in many ways US politics look sort of tame.
[MUX IN: Long Strides, Blue Dot Sessions]
Nate Hegyi: In this episode, we’re going to look at a couple of these stories… that don’t fit so neatly in a narrative box. And we’re going to start with a region of Alaska called the Yukon-Kuskokwim Delta.
Joseph Lee: I mean, not being from Alaska, it's just completely different
The delta is mostly tundra. Sitting on top of the permafrost is a vast expanse of wetlands: a mosaic of green and brown sedges and shrubs teeming with millions of birds and other species. Though when Joseph went there one January everything was covered in a thin layer of snow.
It's so huge and open.
the mountains, the tundra, um, just the sheer, I think, size and scale of everything. It's just incredible.
…
Joseph Lee: the other thing which isn't necessarily about the landscape, but about how indigenous it feels.
When you go out there, it feels very much, you know, like an indigenous place and you can't escape it.
Nate Hegyi: Yeah. One of the cool things I always thought about Bethel is that the public radio station there broadcasts in Yup'ik
Joseph Lee: Yeah. And I mean, you're going around and signs are in both Languages, um, the culture of food and all of these, Yupik things. It's. Yeah, it's just everywhere. It permeates everything.
[MUX SWELL, UNDER AND OUT]
Nate Hegyi: The main population center in the area is the city of Bethel… population 6 thousand. It’s the hub for about fifty villages that surround it.
But none of those villages are connected by roads. Instead, one of the more common ways to get around is on the Kuskokwim river.
Joseph Lee: So in the winter, it freezes over and you can walk on the river, you can drive on the river. And in the summer when it's flowing, you know, you get a boat.
Nate Hegyi: The Kuskokwim is so important to the communities here. They use it to deliver supplies and medicine. They get a lot of their food here from fishing.
It’s their lifeblood.
But things are changing…
Joseph Lee: You know, going out to Alaska in January, I was like, do I bring five coats? You know I’m gonna wear three pairs of pants all the time, like every layer I have.
And you know, it was cold. But I don't know that it ever got like, colder than sort of a really cold day in New York.
[MUX IN: Soothe, Blue Dot Sessions]
Temperatures in Alaska are rising three times faster than the global average. Salmon populations are shrinking.
And just as people are taking more risks to get fish, the river ice is getting dangerously unpredictable. Alaska now has the highest rate of drownings in the country.
These are not changes that can be reversed through careful management, or planting native species. The ice is melting one way or another - and the Yup’ik have to decide how to respond.
Nate Hegyi: So what does adaptation look like in those communities.
Joseph Lee: Yeah. I mean, I think at a basic level it's, um, awareness, right? You have to be aware of this…you know, maybe before you could just go out without checking conditions…Now it's like everybody's encouraging people. You got to check. You got to listen to the radio reports. You got to check the weather. Yeah.
Um, and then the other thing in terms of safety that I, that I just found was really interesting was this emphasis on swimming. it's kind of funny that in a place like that, a lot of people don't know how to swim, um, which is just one of those realities. But, yeah, um, they've really tried to push that in recent years, and there was this big community effort to fundraise and create a pool and have swimming lessons for the community.
[MUX SWELL AND OUT]
Nate Hegyi: Checking the weather reports, learning how to swim…they’re pretty simple adaptations. They come from a recognition that the climate is changing, and you have to change with it.
But there’s a much bigger… and more controversial change that might be coming to this region soon… the Donlin Gold Mine Project.
[MUX IN: Inamorata]
On a site just up-river from Bethel, mining corporations want to break ground on what would be one of the largest gold mines in the world. It would be a huge project… that would bring jobs and economic growth to a region where the poverty rate is twice the national average.
But it would also bring a big slurry pond of toxic chemicals like arsenic and mercury, and a 300-mile natural gas pipeline cutting across rural Alaska to supply a power plant, housing for workers, and a new port for ferries to carry mining materials up and down the Kuskokwim river.
This might sound like a classic battle between economic development versus the environment. But this is not your typical conservation controversy.
Joseph Lee: it wasn't, um, a situation where you have a tribe on, on a piece of land and some outside corporation coming in and that’s basically the fight. What interested me in this situation you kind of have indigenous people on both sides of this issue.
Okay, so this is where we need to get a little wonky and explain the actors here. So the mineral rights where the Donlin mine would be built are owned by the Calista Corporation.
The Calista Corporation is what’s called an ANC, an Alaska Native Corporation. ANCs were created by an act of US Congress in 1971 that gave Alaska Natives 900 million dollars and 44 million acres in Alaska in return for forfeiting any future land claims.
Indigenous people were enrolled in one of twelve ANCs as shareholders, and the purpose of the ANCs was to represent the interests of their shareholders.
The Calista ANC represents 56 different tribes, primarily of Yupik descent. And in the case of the Donlin mine project, Calista representatives say it’s a once in a lifetime opportunity.
[MUX OUT]
Joseph Lee: they say that the profits generated from the mine are going to lead to so many opportunities, jobs, training, educational opportunities, the ability to fund cultural programs
But on the other hand…
Joseph Lee: You have a lot of tribes in the area and just local indigenous community members who are against the mine, and many of them are actually shareholders of Calista. So they are sort of protesting against their own corporation, saying, you should not be having this mine come in here because it's going to be terrible for our river, our health, our way of life.
[00:24:32-00:24:58] Joseph Lee: the tribes, they're the sovereign ones, right? The ANC, the corporation is not a sovereign entity, right? It's a for profit corporation. A lot of these tribes are saying we need to be asserting our sovereignty more. We need to have a say in this rather than just letting sort of the money decide.
[MUX IN: Mcrary, Blue Dot Sessions]
Nate Hegyi: So, you know. We live in a different world now due to climate change, colonialism, the rise of capitalism. Do you think that Dawnland mind is actually an example of adaptation to new realities?
Joseph Lee: I think that any kind of economic project that tribes are embarking on or in this case, um, an ANC, an Alaska Native corporation, is an attempt to, yeah, attempt an attempt to adapt and attempt to make something work. Um, obviously those attempts maybe don't always work or it's not. It turns out that that wasn't always the right choice.
Whether it's, you know, a small little convenience store that a tribe opens to generate some income or a large casino resort or some other industry. Um,
I think these projects are tribes trying to figure out a way to exist and thrive in this world, in this country that really wasn't made for them, made for us.
tribes have been placed in this sort of American capitalist system. And so the way that I think a lot of people see it is the way to succeed in that is you just have to make a bunch of money. And so we're going to create the thing that's going to get us a bunch of money. And then once you have money, you have power and you have choices.
[MUX]
Nate Hegyi: Right now the project is stalled in four separate lawsuits. But investors are doubling down. They’re already conducting exploratory drilling and other studies they need to begin construction.
After the break, we look at another tribe facing a different kind of existential threat to their land: sea level rise, and very…very rich neighbors.
<<MIDROLL BREAK>>
Nate Hegyi: This is Outside/In, a show where curiosity and the natural world collide.
I’m Nate Hegyi. And I’m talking to Joseph Lee. He’s a freelance journalist and author of a new book called “Nothing More of this Land,”
Nate Hegyi: As a journalist, you know, you're going around… you're hearing about how all these different, disparate, um, communities are adapting to climate change, how they're using the land… Do you ever want to just take some of those ideas and bring them back to your own tribe? Like, I just think of, like, sometimes as a journalist, you hear all these amazing things and you feel like you want to pivot and become more involved in your own local community. Do you ever get that feeling?
Joseph Lee: Yeah. I mean, all the time. And I tell people in, you know, my cousins and other other folks in the tribe, when I go home, I'm like, hey, you know, I was just out at Karuk or Yurok or, you know, Yupik folks and here's what they're doing. And it's really cool.
You know, and I think what's so important about that, is I think because of everything, everybody, but especially tribes has to deal with. It's really hard to see outside of sort of your own immediate problems. Right?
And I think also, you know, it just helps people to feel less alone and like, I'm dealing with this problem, that's impossible. And … I think even just hearing that other people are going through that I think can can help a lot. And
you know, one of the surprising and interesting things that I hear a lot when I'm reporting in indigenous communities is they want to hear what else I've learned from other tribes.
[MUX IN: Small World Reveals - Blue Dot Sessions]
Yeah. They're like, where have you been? What have you seen? Can you can you share stuff with us? Um, because, you know, they see that. They see that I'm I'm out there talking to other tribes and going to other places and learning from other people, and and they want to they want to hear that they, they they want to sort of get in on that. You know.
Nate Hegyi: One place that reminds Joseph a lot about his own tribe, is the Shinnecock Nation.
The Shinnecock Nation is this small reservation on the East End of Long Island. Their reservation is on a little peninsula, and it’s…literally surrounded… by some of the most flamboyant displays of wealth on the East Coast: the Hamptons.
We’re talking about the sorts of mansions you’d gawk at on reality TV. Local celebs like Robert Downey Jr., Sarah Jessica Parker, and Jerry Seinfeld might be driving by the reservation on a regular basis.
The tribe calls the peninsula they live on “the neck,” and that’s fitting because if you look at a Google Maps image of the area, the Shinnecock reservation kind of looks like it’s been swallowed into the mouth of a beast.
Of course, the Shinnecock Nation used to encompass a lot more land. But after the arrival of European colonists in the 1600s, their territory shrank from thousands of acres then, to about 900 acres today.
[MUX OUT]
Decades of development in the Hamptons polluted water resources. Nitrogen runoff from massive lawns and septic systems are doing a number on clam, oyster, and scallop populations.
But the fact that they’ve been able to hold onto even just a small part of their land is a huge point of pride. Except now? There’s something else that’s threatening it all.
Sea level rise.
[Superstorm Sandy news coverage]
Reporter: By all accounts Sandy is a monster storm.
The Shinnecock Nation basically sits at sea level. When Hurricane Sandy hit, power was knocked out, homes flooded. Parts of the shoreline were obliterated.
In its aftermath, the Shinnecock drew up a Climate Change Adaptation Plan.
They’re building oyster reefs to try and stop shoreline erosion, they’re restoring aquatic vegetation to absorb the impacts of waves.
But these strategies can only do so much. By 2050, the tribe is predicting that a major storm like Sandy, could flood half of their land.
Joseph Lee: So right now one of the big conversations is around managed retreat.
[MUX IN: Voyager]
Nate Hegyi: Managed retreat. It’s when communities and infrastructure are relocated from a vulnerable area, usually because of sea level rise or increasing wildfire risk. it often takes a coordinated effort, AND money… something the tribe doesn’t have enough of.
The median income on the reservation is about 36 thousand dollars, a fraction of what some homeowners in the Hamptons might pay to maintain their lawns.
Joseph Lee: Property is really, really expensive.
Joseph Lee: So to raise the amount of money to just buy, let's say, a house or even a plot of land that you could build a house or two To is, you know, it's in the millions of dollars,
The Shinnecock have been trying to raise money. So far they’ve encountered a lot of push back for how they want to do it.
Reporter: Some drivers are aghast. Giant ads now lighting up the gateway to the Hamptons.
Man: It’s quite mind-boggling, and I think it ruins the whole ambiance of the area.
The tribe built two electronic billboards on Shinnecock land along the highway to sell ads.
Reporter: For years, efforts to achieve self-sufficiency like a casino were shot down.
This has a smaller footprint and adds no traffic. And the notion they created an eyesore?
Lance Gumbs (Council of Trustees): The hypocrisy of it is you know they’re building these mega mansions out here, all of these things are eye sores to us. For 400 years we’ve lived here and watched the desecration of lands.
[MUX SWELL AND OUT]
To be clear, the money they’re raising are mostly to make improvements to the health center, crumbling roads, fund affordable housing projects. The bread and butter of any government.
But the point is, if it’s a struggle just to raise the funds for basic upkeep on their reservation, how are they supposed to get the funds to move their entire community?
Not to mention the emotional barrier to even thinking about it. We’re not just talking about moving individual households after all. We’re talking about moving a sovereign nation.
[MUX IN: Strange Dog Walk, Blue Dot Sessions]
Joseph Lee: And for indigenous people especially, you're not just talking about, you know, land you might have lived on your whole life. You're talking about land that your people have lived on forever.
…
Joseph Lee: It's so hard to imagine and, you know, and people don't want to imagine it. You always want to find another solution, right?
Joseph Lee: The oyster reefs, kelp farming, uh, the dunes, the sand, the rocks, all these other projects. Um, because you want to exhaust every other possible option before you even think about moving. You don't want to, you know, kind of just say, Well, it's not looking good. I guess we're gonna have to move. Um, you know that that's not an easy conversation to have. So. Yeah, I mean there’s, there’s emotional weight, and
Joseph Lee: They are trying to find ways to have that conversation with friends and family, right, to consider what would it mean to leave? What would it mean to move? Um, because they know a lot of people just don't want to have that conversation.
[MUX SWELL]
Nate Hegyi: Whether it’s sea level rise threatening the Shinnecock Nation, or the controversy in Yup’ik lands in Alaska over a giant open-pit gold mine, Indigenous communities are facing unprecedented challenges to their lands.
Joseph has tried to document these and other existential threats to tribes in his new book, Nothing More of This Land.
And even though a stereotype of Indigenous people is that they live in the past, Joseph says in all the conversations he’s had with Indigenous people over the years, he’s found that they’re some of the most forward-looking people in the world.
It’s just that planning for that future is incredibly hard.
[MUX BREAK]
Joseph is trying to chart a path forward for his own tribe… the Aquinnah Wampanoag on the island of Martha’s Vineyard. So much of the island is unaffordable for tribal members, with nearly three-quarters of them living off-island, including Joseph. And he’s felt uneasy about that.
Joseph Lee: I think I always thought growing up and a lot of this was because of what we're told about native people. And, you know, popular culture is like, I had to be on the island. I had to be immersed in our culture. And that was the only way to be Wampanoag. That was the only way to be indigenous.
But then, Joseph thought back to an iconic landmark on the Aquinnah Wamponoag land, where he grew up.
Joseph Lee: there's sort of these large, rugged cliffs that come straight up from the water. it's multicolored clay. So there's red and white and yellow and black
Nate Hegyi: The story, of how these cliffs came to be, involved an ancient tribal leader, Moshup, who was a giant.
Joseph Lee: And the story is that he would walk out into the water and grab a whale from the ocean because he was a giant. And, you know, walk back with the whale onto the shore and to kill the whale, he would slam it against the clay cliffs. [00:48:19-00:48:38] Joseph Lee: and the entire community would, would be able to, um, eat the whale. And so the red and the cliffs, the red clay in the cliffs now is is from the whale's blood
The cliffs are on our tribal seal. Um, our people have worked with the clay for generations…it's a place where I grew up, you know, looking at the cliffs, running on the beach.
Nate Hegyi: Now the thing about Moshup is that he’s also known for something else he did. He’s known for leaving.
Joseph Lee: Moshup told the community that he had seen that a new people would be coming, and these people would change our way of life forever. And so Moshup gave everybody a choice. And he said, you know, I'm going to leave and basically you can leave with me. And if you want to leave, I'll turn you, turn you into Whales, or you can stay.
…
And a bunch of people chose to be turned into Whales and left and swam away. And Moshup also left.
…
I think in a lot of ways I always thought of that as kind of like this sad final end to the story.
But I think, um, when you look back at our history we've always had these moments of choice of staying and leaving. But it doesn't have to be a final choice, right? You can leave and you can come back. Um, my grandfather did that. My mother did that. I've done that.
It’s an understanding of what it means to be Wampanoag and maybe what it means to be indigenous is it's about making these choices. And I think, you know, the people who stayed, they made a choice to stay and make a commitment to each other and to the land. Um, and I think that that's a choice that we continue to make every day. And sometimes the way we make that choice might look different, you know, whether that's trying to learn the language, whether that's just being in community, whether sometimes that's, you know, leaving and doing what I do and, you know, reporting on other indigenous communities. Um, and then, you know, bringing some of that back. Um, so I think it's trying to have an understanding of all the different forms that that being Wampanoag can take is how I see that.
Nate Hegyi: It was on a trip, back to those red clay cliffs in Aquinnah, that Joseph understood what the path forward was for himself.
It came to him while he was clamming in the waters by the cliff.
I used to think that someday I could memorize where all the seaweed patches are, and remember exactly where I tossed smaller clams so I could get them later when they had grown. I thought that was the kind of map I needed to make, a kind of detailed catalog of the land.
This is Joseph reading from his book.
But of course, the ocean is always changing, shifting, and evolving. Clamming is not about mastery or memorization. It's about the time I spend in the water and on the beach, hanging out with my family. It's about sharing clams with my cousins and showing them how to get clams themselves. And that's all part of the map that I'm making, the map that I'll continue making for the rest of my life.
It's not a map to or away from somewhere, I've realized. It's a map that shows us how to live, how to be, and how to care. And that's enough.
[MUX SWELL]
If you want to read more about the Donlin gold mine project, the Shinnecock Nation and sea level rise, and many other stories Joseph has reported on, check out the show notes, we’ve put links there and on our website, Outsideinradio.org.
We’ve also put a link there to his new book, released just this week. It’s called Nothing More of This Land. Check it out.
<<CREDITS>>
This episode was reported, produced, and mixed by Felix Poon.
It was edited by executive producer Taylor Quimby. I’m your host, Nate Hegyi.
Our staff includes Justine Paradis, Marina Henke, and Jessica Hunt.
Rebecca Lavoie is NHPR’s Director of On-Demand Audio
Music in this episode was by Blue Dot Sessions and Walt Adams
Outside/In is a production of New Hampshire Public Radio