As consumers, we’re looking for a lot in our sunscreen. Not only do we want it to protect us from sunburns and skin cancer, we also want it to be invisible, lightweight, waterproof, nontoxic, shelf-stable, and cheap.

Can we have it all in one product? Sometimes, the answer might be no.

It’s high time for the Outside/In team to take a closer look at this surprisingly high-tech lotion that we apply every day (in theory). We review the definition of SPF, the choice between mineral and chemical filters, and if sunscreen is safe for our bodies and the environment.

Featuring Anna Wang, David Whiteman, Ade Adamson, and Alexa Friedman.

ADDITIONAL MATERIALS

An article in Mother Jones featuring Ade Adamson, headlined: “There’s No Proof Sunscreen Prevents Cancer in Black People. Why Do Doctors Keep Pushing It?”

Research on the protective role of melanin in black skin against UV DNA damage

Public health advice on sunscreen application for Australia and New Zealand, co-authored by David Whiteman

The 2025 CHOICE report in Australia, and reports from Consumer Reports and the Environmental Working Group

A review of the environmental impacts of sunscreen, including mineral products

SUPPORT

To share your questions and feedback with Outside/In, call the show’s hotline and leave us a voicemail. The number is 1-844-GO-OTTER. No question is too serious or too silly.

Outside/In is made possible with listener support. Click here to join our Patreon and get ad-free episodes of the podcast.

Follow Outside/In on Instagram, TikTok, or join our private discussion group on Facebook.

CREDITS

Host: Nate Hegyi

Reported, produced, and mixed by Justine Paradis

Editing by Taylor Quimby

Special thanks to Autumn Kitchens.

Our staff includes Marina Henke, Felix Poon, and Jessica Hunt.

Executive producer: Taylor Quimby

Rebecca Lavoie is NHPR’s Director of On-Demand Audio

Music by An Jone, April Showers, Tick Tock, Iso Indies, Auxjack, Guustavv, and Blue Dot Sessions.

Outside/In is a production of New Hampshire Public Radio

download a transcript

Audio Transcript

Note: Episodes of Outside/In are made as pieces of audio, and some context and nuance may be lost on the page. Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.

Nate Hegyi: Hey hey! From NHPR, this is Outside/In, a show where curiosity and the natural world collide. I am your host, Nate Hegyi, here with our producer Justine Paradis.

Justine Paradis: And as usual, to start our episode, I have a question for you. And that question is how old would you guess that sunscreen is? Like the first modern version. What do you think?

Nate Hegyi: You know, it just kind of feels like a World War II. I got World War II vibes. I think, like, you know, right around, like sending a bunch of young soldiers to the tropics.

Justine Paradis: That is correct.

Nate Hegyi: Wow. Okay!

Justine Paradis: Airmen, which is what it's described as in every article, which I find very like old time radio. Like “airmen.”

Nate Hegyi: Airmen!

Justine Paradis: They were furnished with something called “Red Vet Pet” in case their plane was downed and they were stranded, like, on a life raft.

Nate Hegyi: Okay.

Justine Paradis: And this was a very dark petroleum jelly, heavy and unpleasant, according to the New York Times.

Nate Hegyi: Yeah.

Justine Paradis: Apparently it had an SPF of 2. We’ve come a long way since then in many ways.

Nate Hegyi: I'd hope so, because, you know, globbing on a bunch of petroleum jelly does not seem very fun.

MUSIC: The Sermon, Blue Dot Sessions

Justine Paradis: Yeah, like orange, dark petroleum jelly is how I imagine it. Yeah.

Nate Hegyi: I'm not gonna look good on the beach wearing that in 1944.

MUSIC SWELL

Justine Paradis: Nate, when you're headed out on a hike, when you bust out the sunscreen, what are the qualities you want in this, you know, maybe seemingly simple goo?

Nate Hegyi: Ugh. You know, Justine, if only I did bust out the sunscreen.

Justine Paradis: [laughs] That's a whole other question.

Nate Hegyi: Okay, what I'm looking for, especially early summer is like, I don't want to have that first bad red burn.

JP: You want it to protect you from a sunburn.

Nate Hegyi: But I also don't want to look – where it doesn't actually go in and you just have white stuff all over your face?

Justine Paradis: You want it to look good.

Nate Hegyi: It needs to be invisible.

Justine Paradis: I would say I'm gonna add some things to the list. We want it to be durable. We want it to last.

Nate Hegyi: Yup.

Justine: We want it to not give us acne.

Nate Hegyi: Yes. Very true.

Justine Paradis: We want it to smell nice.

Nate: Mhm.

Justine Paradis: We want it to be nontoxic.

Nate Hegyi: Yes.

Justine Paradis: We want it to last for a long time in our beach bags. We don't want to replace it a lot.

Nate Hegyi: If I go in the water, I don't want to have to put it on again. Or if I start sweating.

Justine Paradis: You want it also to be cheap.

Nate Hegyi: Yeah. I don't want to drop, you know, an arm and a leg on sunscreen.

MUSIC SWELL AND OUT

Justine Paradis: Imagine if sunscreen didn't exist and someone described this product. “Imagine a spray that smells like banana that protects you from sunburns that's cheap and doesn't look like anything and doesn't cause acne.” This would sound –

Nate Hegyi: Sounds awesome.

Justine Paradis: – like a miracle.

Anna Wang: So if you say like, I want a really delicious cake, like a chocolate cake, but I need it to not have any nuts in it. And it has to be vegan. But also I don't want it to have any oil inside. Then you need a really, really amazing baker to make you that delicious cake.

Justine Paradis: So, this is Anna Wang. She's an associate professor of chemistry at the University of New South Wales in Sydney, Australia. And she has convinced me that we don't appreciate what a complicated, advanced substance that modern sunscreen really is.

Nate Hegyi: Yeah.

Anna Wang: Sunscreen is one of the highest tech products that we use on a daily basis.

MUSIC: Candy Paint, Guustavv

It's kind of wild to think about. You don’t think twice. It’s pretty cheap. In Australia, at least, it’s very much in our psyche. We can’t go outside and play unless we’re wearing sunscreen as a child.

Nate Hegyi: From NHPR, this is Outside/In. I am Nate Hegyi here with one of our show's producers, Justine Paradis.

Justine Paradis: And today Nate and I are taking a closer look at this super high tech lotion that we put on (or are supposed to put on) every day, and asking some basic questions, like:

Nate Hegyi: What the heck is SPF?

Justine Paradis: How is sunscreen tested?

Nate Hegyi: What's the difference between mineral and chemical sunscreen?

Justine Paradis: Plus, there is sunscreen news in the United States. The first news of its kind in decades.

Nate Hegyi: Stay tuned.

MUSIC OUT

Nate Hegyi: From NHPR, this is Outside/In. I am Nate Hegyi here with Justine Paradis. And today we are talking all about that lotion you slather on at the ocean…

Justine Paradis: Nice.

Nate Hegyi: … sunscreen.

Justine Paradis: And let's start with a very well-proven fact. Sun is great. We love the sun. But.

Nate Hegyi: Yes.

Justine Paradis: It can also give you cancer.

David Whiteman: Most cancers of the skin are caused by DNA damage that is a direct result of sunlight exposure.

Justine Paradis: That's David Whiteman, epidemiologist. There are two types of UV light that do this: UVA and UVB. UVA goes deeper. It's associated with aging your skin.

Nate Hegyi: Okay.

Justine Paradis: UVB doesn't go as deep, but it's what gives you a sunburn.

David Whiteman: Ultraviolet B wavelengths are very potent DNA damaging agents. That damage leads to uncontrolled growth of the cells. And those cells become cancerous and can spread throughout the body and and kill the host.

So, that is why you might hear advice to look for a broad spectrum sunscreen. To do all the above: prevent burns, keep your skin healthy, and hopefully avoid getting skin cancer.

MUX: The Sermon (Mellow Boy), Blue Dot Sessio ns

Justine Paradis: So a lot of consumer debate on sunscreen has to do with the two main types of sunscreen, and that's mineral or chemical. Do you have a preference off the bat, like not knowing much about it?

Nate Hegyi: Nope!

Justine Paradis: [laughs]

Nate Hegyi: So all I know is the stuff that my wife has that is white. And then I think like, I think of like the zinc sunscreen that my more, uh, crunchy friends will put on.

Justine Paradis: So you got like a beat up old bottle there that's almost, almost out. What's, what is that bottle?

Nate Hegyi: This right here. So I'm holding a bottle of ocean potion. Will it say on there? Like, is it chemical or mineral?

Justine Paradis: Yeah. What are the active ingredients on the back?

Nate Hegyi: Okay. Um, a bunch of words I, a bunch of words I can't pronounce… avobenzone???

Justine: I think it’s pronounced avobenzone. Like avocado, but avobenzone.

Nate Hegyi: Nice.

Justine Paradis: So you have a chemical sunscreen that you have in your bag.

Nate Hegyi: Yeah. So I guess, I guess I prefer chemical sunscreen then, in that case.

Justine Paradis: So what’s the difference between chemical and mineral sunscreen? Mineral sunscreen: the active ingredients are zinc oxide or titanium oxide. Its signature look is that white cast. So you show up at the beach looking like you've just finished, like hair and makeup for the opera.

Nate Hegyi: Yeah exactly [laughs].

Justine Paradis: Chemical sunscreen uses a synthetic molecule produced in a lab. And it creates a sort of molecular shield. So a couple you might recognize - avobenzone. There’s also oxybenzone.

Nate Hegyi: Okay.

Justine Paradis: Both types work basically the same way. So instead of the photons careening into your fragile DNA, they interact with the UV filters first, and get blocked or absorbed, or even released as a little bit of heat.

Nate Hegyi: Ooh, spicy.

Justine Paradis: Spicy! I have long preferred mineral sunscreen. And I think that's because: zinc, titanium; I know what those are. They sound familiar. They're on the periodic table. Whatever.

Nate Hegyi: Right, that is like, the general vibe. Like, why people will use mineral sunscreens is because like the chemical ones sound less safe.

Justine Paradis: Chemical. Scary, right?

Nate Hegyi: Yeah, exactly.

Justine Paradis: So the question is: chemical sunscreen sounds scary to some people. Is it scary? Is it safe?

Ade Adamson: So the, uh, the tl;dr is yes, sunscreen is safe.

MUX: Apollo Diedre (no violin), Blue Dot Sessions

Okay. It is safe. Now, there is some nuance around there that I'm happy to discuss.

Justine Paradis: This is Ade Adamson. He is a dermatologist and associate professor in internal medicine at the Dell Medical School at the University of Texas Austin. And he told me there are a couple reasons why people have doubts about chemical sunscreen. And he pointed to a couple studies.

Ade Adamson: One specifically that really blew up was in 2019 where there was a study commissioned by the FDA.

Justine Paradis: They recruited a bunch of people to come for the day, apply the maximum amount of sunscreen on their body, several times chemical sunscreen, staying inside all day. And then they did some tests to see if these chemical filters appeared in the blood.

Nate Hegyi: Okay.

Justine Paradis: And they did.

Ade Adamson: Indeed, several of these chemical filters could be detected in the blood above a threshold that the FDA deemed more safety studies were required.

MUX SWELL AND FADE

Justine Paradis: But, to be clear, the FDA wasn’t saying that this meant these chemicals were unsafe, just that more study was needed.

Ade Adamson: It said nothing about how “toxic” these chemicals are or how they affect human health. All they showed is that they can get into the plasma, and this actually had been known for many, many years, but it hadn't been studied in this type of rigorous way.

Justine Paradis: So why is that scary?

Ade Adamson: So it's scary for a couple reasons. One is one of those chemicals…

Justine Paradis: Oxybenzone.

… has been shown to cause problems in the endocrine system of rats that are given mega-doses.

Justine Paradis: Endocrine system, are you familiar?

Nate Hegyi: Yes, mm, remind me!

Justine Paradis: It means hormones, reproductive health, you know, really, like, existential stuff, right?

Nate Hegyi: Like immediately, I’m like, should I not be using my avobenzone stuff anymore?

Justine Paradis: Well, Alexa Friedman, a senior scientist with a consumer watchdog called the Environmental Working Group EWG, says maybe not – or at least maybe not with oxybenzone.

Alexa Friedman: Our position at EWG is one available using the safer alternative. So when it comes to formulating a sunscreen when possible to formulate without oxybenzone, I think our position is why not safer?

Justine Paradis: She told me, we have so many chemicals coming at us from all directions – pesticides, in our cosmetics.

Nate Hegyi: Yeah.

Justine Paradis: Why not try and reduce our exposure? But Ade says – that rat study, that idea that it would affect the endocrine system…

Nate Hegyi: Yeah.

Justine Paradis: …you really have to put that into context.

Ade Adamson: Now we're talking like doses that are beyond comprehension. Doses like that, it would take you maximal usage for like 70 years to reach those levels. It’s beyond absurd. They don't actually have human applicability.

Nate Hegyi: It just reminds me of fluoride so much because it's the same thing, right? In high, high doses, fluoride can cause all sorts of health problems. But in like the low doses that we have when you're adding it to our drinking water, it's not really a big concern.

Justine Paradis: Yeah, this is a conversation about risk. So, actually, Ade and Alexa, they might have different perspectives on oxybenzone, but they agree, you should find a sunscreen you like and wear it, regardless of whether it’s mineral or chemical. Because what's greater risk? Oxybenzone or ultraviolet light?

Nate Hegyi: I'm assuming it's going to be ultraviolet light.

Ade Adamson: The strongest linked risk factor for the development of skin cancer are sunburns. Period.

Here again is Anna Wang in Sydney.

Anna Wang: For me personally, I don't think about the health risks of using chemical UV filters… I'd say that the risk of DNA damage from the sun is cumulative over time. And so that is pretty scary to think about. It's like, oh, I didn't think about the sun much as a kid, but I got sunburned a few times. But that DNA damage is in me now. And so that to me is a much bigger risk, like, that cumulative DNA damage, than thinking about oh, did I wash my hands before eating lunch, am I eating sunscreen right now?

Nate Hegyi: I am literally having flashbacks in my mind right now of all the terrible sunburns I got as a teenager.

Justine Paradis: Same, same. And it's, um, it's a bummer because you can't do anything about it except wear sunscreen now.

Nate Hegyi: Exactly. And then lecture our children.

Justine: [laughs] Yeah, exactly.

MUSIC TRANSITION: Glad Rags, Tick Tock

Justine Paradis: So another reason people sometimes choose mineral sunscreens over chemical ones is their impact on the environment. Oxybenzone has been found to kill coral, which is why Hawaii and some countries have banned it from their shelves.

Nate Hegyi: Oh, interesting.

Justine Paradis: There's even a label. “Reef safe” typically found on mineral sunscreen. But that’s one of those toothless, unregulated marketing terms.

And long story short, the thing manufacturers are doing to make mineral sunscreen less white on your skin – which is make the mineral particles super small – you might see “nano” on the package.

Anna Wang: But the problem is when you have nanoparticles that have very high surface area to volume ratio, which means that they can actually react very easily with things in the environment.

And this is arguably as bad for marine life as chemical sunscreen. There’s data that it kills coral just the same as oxybenzone does.

Anna Wang: And so we're caught between two sort of unpleasant options. It's like, do you kill the coral with minerals or do you kill it with chemicals? It’s gonna happen either way.

MUSIC: Still on Track (Instrumental version), Iso Indies

Justine: Okay. So we've talked about safety. We've talked about the environment. But now let's discuss which of these is more effective: mineral or chemical?

Nate: Yeah.

Justine: And to explore that question we will journey to the shores of Australia circa fall 2025.

David Whiteman: Um, it was, it was an intense period, I have to say. There were, uh, inklings and rumors circulating that a big story was coming out.

Justine Paradis: This again is David Whiteman, a medical epidemiologist in Brisbane, Australia. He's been studying melanoma and skin cancer for the past 30 years or so.

David Whiteman: And then using that knowledge to find better ways to prevent those cancers, particularly in the Australian population, but but globally.

Justine Paradis: So here's what happened.

MUX: Cherry Heath Minimal, Blue Dot Sessions

Nate Hegyi: Mhm.

Justine Paradis: An Australian consumer watchdog group called CHOICE decided to test the SPF claims of sunscreen in Australia.

Nate Hegyi: Okay.

Justine Paradis: Twenty widely available products from brands like Neutrogena, La Roche Posay, Cancer Council, Banana Boat. And 16 of those 20 products fell short of what they advertised.

Nate Hegyi: Hm!

Justine Paradis: These were all sunscreens advertised to be SPF 50 or above, but they came in all over the place like in the 40s, 30s, 20s and lower.

David Whiteman: For anyone working in sunscreen field, we've always known that the way in which we measure sunscreen’s protective effects is not perfect. So it didn't surprise any of us that one lab gets a different result. What was surprising was the degree of discrepancy and the poor showing of quite a few of those sunscreens, and some of them were extremely poor.

Justine Paradis: The most dramatic result here – again, it was advertised at SPF 50 – and it tested at an SPF of… 4.

Nate Hegyi: That is wild. That is way less.

Justine Paradis: It's amazingly less. This did trigger a recall of some products. But this SPF discrepancy issue isn't specific to Australia. South Korean sunscreens also went through a scandal a few years ago. In the United States, there have been similar watchdog reports coming to similar conclusions. And while there are products of both types that have fallen short, mineral sunscreens tend to measure up worse than chemical ones when they get tested in this way.

Nate Hegyi: Interesting.

Justine Paradis: And why – after a break?

Nate Hegyi: Alright. Can't wait to find out.

BREAK

Nate Hegyi: From NHPR, this is Outside/In, a show where curiosity and the natural world collide. I am Nate Hegyi here with our producer, Justine Paradis, who was just about to tell me why mineral sunscreens tend to fare worse than chemical sunscreens when their SPF claims get tested by third parties.

Justine Paradis: Correct. And so to explain why, let's bring back Anna Wang, who is an associate professor of chemistry at the University of New South Wales in Sydney, Australia.

Anna Wang: I would call myself a soft matter scientist, so I like dealing with everything that’s squishy.

Justine Paradis: Our squishy expert.

Nate Hegyi: I love that. Soft matter.

Justine Paradis: Soft matter! So be clear – Australian regulators are still investigating why so many sunscreens tested so much lower than their claimed SPF – like, that one lotion labeled SPF 50 which tested at an SPF of 4, for example.

So we’re going to explore different explanations that could be at play here.

And one possibility has to do with the physical challenge of sunscreen as a material. Anna explained to me that mineral sunscreens are difficult in a particular way. Because – chemical sunscreens, these are lightweight molecules.

Nate: Mhm.

Justine Paradis: Zinc and titanium oxides, they come as a powder. So, these are ingredients you could see under the microscope. They’re just clunkier.

Nate Hegyi: Gotcha.

Justine Paradis: But what we need either type of sunscreen to do is to spread its protection evenly across your skin.

Anna Wang: That's a really, really tough ask of a powder. Like you need to have a pretty thick layer of powder to really cover all the gaps, right? Otherwise, it's like we put a doily on our skin and we're trying to protect our skin from UV. It's going to get through those holes.

Justine Paradis: Getting these mineral formulations right, to cover skin, keep you safe while ALSO not looking so pasty – that’s really hard – and if the recipe isn’t quite right the SPF might not measure up.

Anna Wang: … I think that's when they start failing.

Justine Paradis: So if, for whatever reason, if there’s an inconsistency in the size of the mineral particles – or if the mineral particles clump up in weird ways – basically, Anna told me: if the particle size changes, the SPF changes.

Anna Wang: I think some of the issues are that if your zinc oxide particles aren't as small as you think they are, then their UV absorption efficiency really drastically drops. And that’s an issue.

And to make matters more complicated: MANY sunscreen makers aren't manufacturing their own mineral powder. They get it from a supplier.

Nate Hegyi: I didn't even think about where they got the zinc from. Like that, there's these zinc suppliers?! That are responsible for incredibly specifically sized powders…

Justine Paradis: Isn't that fascinating? So, it's possible that this is a supply chain issue. And not only that –

David Whiteman: Many sunscreen brands share a base formulation that is manufactured by a single manufacturer and then distributed to others, and they will put in different fragrances or … different moisturizers or different properties to have a different feel…

JP: So, hypothetically, if there are any issues with that base formulation, whether it originated with a mineral powder or another ingredient… that base formulation might wind up in a lot of products.

Which is, allegedly, at least part of what happened in Australia. There was a base formulation shared by many products that failed to meet their SPF claims in that consumer watchdog test.

MUSIC: The Griffiths, Blue Dot Sessions

Justine Paradis: But Nate, there is another big reason that this SPF scandal might have happened. And it's because how we test for SPF – the standard SPF test in a lot of countries is very, very subjective.

Nate Hegyi: Hm.

Justine Paradis: But, um. So do you know what SPF stands for?

Nate Hegyi: I do not know. I have no idea. I just figure the higher the number, the better the sunscreen.

Justine Paradis: You know, that's a reasonable assumption, I feel.

Nate Hegyi: Yeah.

Justine: But no, in so many words. So SPF stands for sun protection factor. So if you've got an SPF of 30, what it is supposedly saying is that it offers you 30 times the amount of time until you get a sunburn, as opposed to if you were wearing nothing. Does that make sense?

Nate Hegyi: Yes. So if I burn in, I don't know, 15 minutes and I'm wearing SPF 50, then it should be some unbelievably high number.

Justine Paradis: Yeah. What's even 15 times 50? Ten times 50 is 500. Five times 50, 750 minutes, 750 minutes.

Nate Hegyi: So like all day.

Justine Paradis: Yeah, in theory, yes… but we’ll come back to that.

MUSIC SWELL AND FADE

Justine Paradis: So the SPF of a sunscreen is determined by the in vivo test. So that's on human skin in a lab.

Nate Hegyi: Okay.

Justine Paradis: They put sunscreen on one part of someone's body. No sunscreen on another. Expose both parts to UV radiation and see how long it takes their skin to burn.

Alexa Friedman: And then they roughly measure redness. So it's a very subjective measure.

Nate Hegyi: Wait, so this is 2026. And we're just like, ‘enh, it looks kind of sunburned.’

// Wait, so, we're just like, ‘enh, it looks kind of sunburned.’

Justine Paradis: We're literally eyeballing it.

Nate Hegyi: Yeah. We're eyeballing it. That's ridiculous.

Justine Paradis: That again was Alexa Friedman, a senior scientist at the Environmental Working Group, a consumer watchdog.

Alexa Friedman: We know from, you know, various different studies and reports that there's like this issue of inconsistent testing, even the same formulation. So you could measure an SPF 50 at one lab and an SPF 30 at another.

Justine Paradis: Anna Wang, the soft matter “squishy” scientist, pointed to alternative international standards which test sunscreens on layers of plastic instead.

Nate Hegyi: Okay.

Justine Paradis: But she thinks this isn't a great solution because…

Anna Wang: … skin is actually a really tricky material to try and emulate. It's like see-through to some wavelengths and not to other wavelengths. It's a mixture of like proteins and lipids. But there's also water inside and it's also rough and it has hair and the fact that it absorbs some of the ingredients that is not going to be emulated by pieces of plastic.

Justine Paradis: So Anna also says that this means that there's now going to be a mix of methods. Like, the FDA still requires the wiggly redness test, but international bodies are using plastic instead.

Nate Hegyi: Okay.

Justine Paradis: So Anna says this actually means we should expect more discrepancies in SPF testing going forward, not less.

MUSIC: Holizna CC0, April Showers

Justine Paradis: And so this is where you have to acknowledge, I think, that no matter how important these consumer studies have been to help people avoid bad sunscreen, there is this huge gap between how sunscreen is supposed to work and how people actually use it.

Nate Hegyi: Mhm.

Justine Paradis: First of all people don’t use enough sunscreen

Nate Hegyi: Yeah, guilty as charged

Justine Paradis: Yeah me too. And second, I'm embarrassed to say that in this process, I actually learned that I probably have been misapplying sunscreen my entire life. Did you know that you're supposed to let your sunscreen dry for like 15 or 20 minutes before you go out into the sun?

Nate Hegyi: Yeah. Well, not before you go out into the sun. I knew you were supposed to do that before you, like, get into the water.

Justine Paradis: It creates a literal film on your skin, and it needs to dry into that film to be protective. Like, like as if you're dipping your finger in Elmer's glue.

Nate Hegyi: So like when I am, when I get to the trailhead and Christine, my wife, throws me the sunscreen. She's like, please put on some sunscreen. And I'm just like, okay. And I put some on my face and then just immediately go hiking. Not the way to do it.

Justine Paradis: The film needs to dry – so you might be rubbing off or damaging the film before it has a chance to set.

Nate Hegyi: For sure.

Justine Paradis: So assuming you do get that part right, and from now on, I'm gonna try my best to wait that 15 minutes. But, precisely in minutes, how long does it take you to get sunburned?

Nate Hegyi: For me? You know, like, I've always felt like it was like an hour, but like the times that I've gotten really burned, I've been outside for prolonged periods of time without sunscreen.

Justine Paradis: An hour sounds so high to me. But it totally depends! On the time of day. Where you are in the world. The season..

Nate Hegyi: Yeah. The angle of the sun.

Justine Paradis; Whether you have especially light or dark skin makes a difference. But, point is: every time you put on sunscreen, it might be different.

Nate Hegyi: Right, exactly.

Justine Paradis: And no matter how high the SPF, all sunscreen breaks down and all sunscreen also peels off and breaks off with activity. So here's Anna gaming out one example. Let’s say she’s putting on SPF 25 and it’s summer in Australia, so let’s say it would take her 5 minutes to burn.

Nate Hegyi: Mhm.

Justine Paradis: That gives her about two hours. But what if she instead put on SPF 50, so double, and got four hours of protection – either way…

Anna Wang: That's so much time. I'm also going to compromise the sunscreen in that time by sweating, by moving around, by being in the wind, by being on sand. It's much better just to reapply. So I think that's my take home message for the whole SPF measurement debate, is we are going to be seeing huge discrepancies in SPF measurements.

MUSIC: Soaker, Auxjack

Sometimes it will be because a formulation has really failed us, but sometimes it's just nothing to sweat about. It's still going to help us from getting, um, skin damage and UV DNA damage. And so we should still use these products that give a much lower rating with some measurement types versus others.

Nate Hegyi: Okay, so like bottom line, maybe don't really pay attention to the SPF too much because it seems like it's all over the board. Just be reapplying sunscreen.

Justine Paradis: The headlines are dramatic, but I think the conclusion is maybe not as dramatic as they seem to imply.

Nate Hegyi: Yeah.

Justine Paradis: Because as long as your sunscreen is like above, like in the 20s and above, it's kind of reasonable and you're gonna have to reapply anyway.

Nate Hegyi: Yeah.

Justine Paradis: And besides – David, the epidemiologist in Australia who among other things crafts public health advice on sunscreen for a living –

David Whiteman: sunscreen is one component of a sun protection strategy that we advocate here. It's never our first line of defense. Sunscreen is always the last line of defense.

NH: Okay, so, wear long sleeve shirts, wear hats.

JP: Avoiding times of the day when the UV is really high. I say, uh, perhaps bring back the parasol here.

NH: Really?! The parasol?

JP: You don’t think so?

Nate Hegyi: I was just at a wedding with parasols and I was like, come on, these are a little goofy.

JP: Oh I think they’re great. I love them. Style, baby.

MUSIC SWELL AND FADE

Justine Paradis: Nate I do, I have actually another piece of news about sunscreen

Nate Hegyi: Ooh!

Justine Paradis: and this comes as good news for a lot of people.

Nate Hegyi: Okay.

Justine Paradis: so in the US, the FDA regulates sunscreen as an over-the-counter drug, and the FDA has been very slow to approve any new active ingredients in sunscreen. Dermatologist Ade Adamson again.

Ade Adamson: Up until June 9th, you know, 2026, there had not been for 25 years a single new active ingredient that was FDA approved for the use in sunscreens.

Justine Paradis: In June of 2026, the FDA approved a new chemical filter for sunscreens. It's called Bemotrizinol.

Nate Hegyi: Bemotrizinol.

Justine Paradis: It has broader UV protection than chemical filters on the market in the US. It also reportedly lasts longer, is more “cosmetically elegant” – it looks better – and doesn’t absorb into the skin the way oxybenzone does. And it's been available for decades in Europe, parts of Asia, Australia…

Ade Adamson: It's better. It's advanced and t his is why, you know, you go online and you have, uh, influencers talking about sunscreens from other parts of the world. They all have this stuff. Right? And so this is now our opportunity to be able to catch up with the rest of the world as it comes to, um, you know, modern sunscreens.

Justine Paradis: … Yeah. I, uh, am looking forward to this. I'm looking forward to having more choices.

Ade Adamson: If you have more ingredients to work with, you can make more dishes.

Justine Paradis: Back to that fun cake metaphor.

Nate Hegyi: Yeah. Now we got one more fun ingredient to make cakes with.

Justine Paradis: We’ll get to try a slice of that bemotrizinol, delicious.

Nate Hegyi: Should we be eating that? Put it on your skin, don’t eat it. Metaphor taken too far.

MUSIC

Nate Hegyi: Alrighty, that is it for this episode.

Special thanks to Autumn Kitchens, a surfer in Rockaway, New York –

Autumn Kitchens: I like, I use three sunscreens in one session.

whose three layer SPF strategy is, frankly, an inspiration.

Also, we didn’t have time to talk about the fascinating experimental research on the ways that melanin is protective against UV… and the debate on how skin color may impact your SPF needs. We’ll share links to some research. Check it out in the show notes.

Our episode today was reported and mixed by Justine Paradis and edited by our executive producer, Taylor Quiimby.

I am your host, Nate Hegyi. The Outside/In staff also includes Felix Poon, Marina Henke, and Jessica Hunt. Our director of On Demand audio is Rebecca LaVoie.

Music came from An Jone, April Showers, Tick Tock, Iso Indies, Auxjack, Guustavv, and Blue Dot Sessions.

Outside in is a production of NHPR.