13 tips on how to "surthrive" this winter
It’s Outside/In’s annual winter show, in which the team gathers around the proverbial fire to share our best ideas towards becoming better friends with winter. The dream is to not just survive, but thrive – dare we say, to “surthrive” – and embrace the season, both the cold and the cozy.
This year, we’re joined by the fabulous Mara Hoplamazian, climate and environment reporter at New Hampshire Public Radio.
We’d also love to hear your recommendations! We might even play them on the podcast or share your tips in our (free) newsletter. Send your suggestions, ideally as a voice recording, to outsidein@nhpr.org or call our hotline, 1-844-GO-OTTER.
Featuring a few of the cold-water dippers of Maine, including Betsy Lou Dawkins, Cholla Foot, Juliet Cox, Anne Buckwalter, and the crowd at a Two Maine Mermaids full moon dip.
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Tips for getting outside
A different kind of waffle, also a winter surthrival tool. Photo via rawpixel.
The waffle knit thermal. It’s one of my favorite base layers. If I'm going out and I’m going for more of a button-down-shirt instead of a sweater look, I can wear a waffle knit underneath and still be warm. - Felix
Make plans with a new-ish friend, maybe specifically someone that you kind of want to impress a little bit. Making plans with someone with whom your friendship is still developing is a special level of commitment, and if you're having trouble getting motivated to get outside, that can help. I’m not a morning person, but one winter, I managed to consistently get to the pool to swim laps at the crack of dawn, thanks to the motivation of plans with my pal Courtney. - Justine
Winter sunbathing. We're all just like batteries: we need to recharge on some sort of light. It seems like a paradox, but on cold days, I feel warmer when I'm outside in the sun, versus when I'm inside with the heat on. I bring a picnic blanket to the woods in my local park and lay it down on the ground with a friend. We sit on the picnic blanket and we let that sun warm us up. You still want to have a good winter jacket and maybe some long johns, but do have your face exposed so you can absorb that sun. I would also recommend taking quiet pauses with your friend to really notice and feel the sun in your skin, almost like you're doing a meditation. - Felix
A darkness survival kit. Darkness is the hardest thing for me about winter, so this year I'm making myself a darkness survival kit. I switched out the batteries in my old headlamp. I'm ordering a high-visibility vest to wear on my nighttime walks, and also probably a box of glow sticks – I keep seeing people with little glow sticks on their dogs, which I think is very cute, and I'm like, why can't I have that? I also got a moon calendar so I can see what days are going to be best for getting out to appreciate the moonlight. I’m pretty scared of the dark, but there’s a little park near my house where I feel safe, and it can almost feel like daylight when the moon is full. - Mara
Pond hockey! I’m not a morning person either, so I like to exercise in the evenings. But it’s tough when it's dark – I've got foot problems, and running can be an issue when it’s icy. A couple of years ago, I got into playing pond hockey. I grew up playing hockey but stopped after high school and then got back into it. I think it's a way more accessible, fun version of hockey: you need skates and a stick, but that's pretty much it. The way we play it here at the pond in Missoula, Montana, there's no net. We just use a 4x4 piece of lumber. The sound of the puck hitting the wood on the icy pond… it’s so satisfying. - Nate
Moonshadows on snow. Photo by Justine Paradis.
On-screen recommendations
“Outer Range.” This is a show about a rancher in Wyoming finds a giant mistake-in-the-universe hole in the ground… and then really weird stuff starts happening: time travel, strange visions, a bison appearing randomly. What I love about the show is that it takes all the tropes of the modern western – the stoic cowboy, rodeos, lots of tough masculinity– and then completely flips them on their head. The best way I can explain it is: it's the Western version of “Twin Peaks.” - Nate
An all-winter trilogy marathon. I'm not really recommending a specific movie or TV show, but instead an activity. When the pandemic started, my pod at the time and I, about six people, each picked our favorite trilogy and then watched all of them. It required a lot of popcorn. “Back to the Future”, the Jason Bourne movies, “The Matrix,” all three extended edition “Lord of the Rings” films… I got to watch a bunch of movies I probably never would have elected to watch on my own, no offense to my dear friends. And since a lot of us picked trilogies that were important to us as kids, it was a really fun way to get to know each other's inner worlds. - Mara
“Kiss the Ground.” My recommendation might be a little on the nose for Outside/In, but I bring up this movie any time I'm talking to someone and the topic of agriculture comes up and I'm like, ‘Oh, do you know what regenerative agriculture is?’ and they're like, ‘No!’ And I'm like, ‘Well, I'll tell you.’ But then I'm also like, ‘you should just watch the documentary “Kiss the Ground.”’ It’s about regenerative agriculture, a potential climate solution. It involves planting perennials, crop rotation, and other techniques, which also overlap with permaculture and do-nothing farming. - Felix
Everything by Julio Torres. I recommend picking a creator and watching / reading / listening to every single thing they've ever made. Right now, I specifically suggest this person be Julio Torres. He’s got a special on HBO called “My Favorite Shapes” which is just unlike any comedy special I have ever seen. He is also the writer responsible for, in my opinion, the best SNL shorts of the past several years, like “Papyrus” and “Wells for Boys”, and he writes and stars in the spectacular and extremely weird “Los Espookys,” also on HBO. He’s said that the show takes inspiration from the vibe of Brazilian telenovelas, “moody… and sexy” and kind of “obsessed with death,” a sense of magic. He also wrote a children’s book. The reason I think it’s nice to engage with someone’s work like this, especially someone who works across different mediums, is you get to see the connections between the things they do – like, the idea of the internal life of objects, which shows up a lot in his work. Plus, you end up being introduced to the people they tend to work with, the music they use… I think it's a nice way to discover new stuff. - Justine
Cozy off-screen ideas
Linocut printing. It’s kinda like a woodcut, but it’s easier. You get a little tool and a slab of linoleum, which kind of feels like rubber, and then you carve out a design, roll on some ink, and make a print. You can also do this with potatoes if you don't feel like procuring linoleum from your nearby art supply store. But the materials are relatively affordable. You can get a kit for $20 or so, and there's a ton of tutorials on Youtube. I think of myself as pretty bad at art generally, like I can't really draw, I can't really paint, I always have a vision and I can never achieve it. But there's something freeing about linocut printing. There's an element of inevitable failure, which I find really comforting. The prints also make great holiday gifts: right now, I’m making prints of my friends’ favorite flowers and sending them off as postcards. - Mara
Take tea to the next level. Here is my vision: find a beautiful teapot and treat yourself to some nice loose leaf tea. Then, when you prepare the tea, pay attention to steep times and water temperature – under-steeping makes for weak tea; over-steeping, bitter flavors… but if you get it just right, you can “unlock” a new world of flavor. There’s delightful variety out there: hibiscus can almost be like wine, very fruity and somehow salty, tangy. Chamomile is a favorite: so very relaxing, good for digestion and sleep. My favorite these days is pu’er, which is fermented and can have a huge range of flavor, like wet straw. It doesn’t have to be tea, but I think paying careful attention to flavor can have a beautiful calming impact on your brain (it’s science). If you’re worried that it’s somehow snobby to do this – I’d reframe it like this: you’re just getting curious about the world. - Justine
I’m recommending a book: Don't Skip Out on Me by Willy Vlautin. Apologies, it is another story about ranchers that flips the idea of Western masculinity on its head – guess I love that theme! The book is about a teenage ranch hand in Nevada who wants to prove himself as a boxer in Arizona. Needless to say, it doesn't go as planned. The writing is so grounded in what it's like to live in the modern rural West, or even modern rural America: gas stations, fast food, open country. And it's got one of the most heartbreaking, surprising endings I've ever read. one of those endings when you flip to the next page and you're like: ‘wait, no, that's it? Are you serious?!’ At first I thought I hated the ending, but then sat for a couple of days and I realized: no, that was a great ending. I really loved it. - Nate
Consider a typewriter. Mine is about writing. Winter for me is a time to slow down, so basically, the suggestion is: just get off your laptop. I purchased a typewriter last winter and I actually really like typing on it. It's a very satisfying clack, clack, clack, clack, clack. Sometimes I'll write letters to friends, sometimes I'll even write a letter to myself and mail it. The nice thing about a typewriter as opposed to a laptop is fewer distractions, and plus, when you make a mistake, you have to just keep going. There’s no backspace – well, technically there is, but the ink is already on the paper, so just keep going. - Felix
CREDITS
Host: Nate Hegyi
Produced and mixed by Justine Paradis
Edited by Taylor Quimby
Executive producer: Rebecca Lavoie
Special thanks to Kelsy Hartley, Hopkins, Judith Greene-Janse, and Michael Tipton.
Music for this episode by Autohacker, Nul Tiel Records, John Runefelt, Blue Dot Sessions, Smartface, Xavy Rasan, Iso Indie, and Vaain.
Our theme music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Outside/In is a production of New Hampshire Public Radio.
If you’ve got a question for the Outside/Inbox hotline, give us a call! We’re always looking for rabbit holes to dive down into. Leave us a voicemail at: 1-844-GO-OTTER (844-466-8837). Don’t forget to leave a number so we can call you back.
Audio Transcript
Note: Episodes of Outside/In are made as pieces of audio, and some context and nuance may be lost on the page. Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.
Justine Paradis: So I can imagine someone listening to this and saying, Why on earth would you do this?
MUX IN: Nul Tiel Records, Fireflies
Betsy Dawkins: Yeah, and that's a very legitimate question. And and that's also part of the the draw.
Nate Hegyi: This is Outside/In. I'm Nate Hegyi. And with me is our producer Justine Paradis.
Justine Paradis: Yeah, and let me start by introducing you to someone I met recently. Her name is Betsy Lou Dawkins, and she loves the ocean. That's part of the reason she's lived in Maine for the past 40 years. She had spent some time in Florida, but for her, the ocean there – way too warm.
Betsy Dawkins: It was like bathwater. This water up here is bracing. It's wonderful.
Nate Hegyi: Bracing. How cold is the ocean in Maine?
Justine Paradis: Bracing is a technical term. Even in the peak of summer in Portland, which is right next door to where Betsy lives. It basically only gets into the sixties.
Nate Hegyi: That’s cold.
Justine Paradis: But Betsy loves the feeling of getting into that cold water. And she does it every day.
MUX FADE
Betsy Dawkins: Yeah. But doing it through the winter is a whole different ballgame.
Nate Hegyi: Through the winter?
Justine Paradis: Yeah. Betsy gets in the water every day through the winter when the water gets into the low thirties or even colder. And this, by the way, is just in a bathing suit. And I think we should know that Betsy is 72 years old.
MUX IN: Ether Variant
Betsy Dawkins: Winter immersion, we call it dipping as we just go in, in the absolute bracing cold, maybe move the ice aside and get in the water and just go up to my neck and and then just stay in the water as long as you can.
Ambi: Ocean
Betsy Dawkins: So when I'm standing on the beach, it's like, okay, I know when I step in that water, it's going to be a wonderful shock. You don't oh, it's cold, you know, And I like that feeling.
MUX OUT: Ether Variant
Justine Paradis: Betsy is just one of many, many, many people, who do some version of cold water immersion or swimming – around the world - in the Scandinavian countries, in New Zealand, in Canada. Apparently it’s even a rite of passage for folks in Antarctica.
Nate Hegyi: Yeah, I feel like I've also heard it like I've probably read like an outside magazine article on like the Wim Hof method.
Justine Paradis: Yeah, that is another iteration of this. And by the way, I do feel like I have to caveat really quick that getting into very cold water like this is obviously not safe. Like, you want to approach this with care and I'll put some info in the show notes about that. But plenty of people also claim health benefits like that. It treats inflammation broadly. Boost your immune system, eases anxiety. Betsy said it feels like getting high and that's what she likes about it. I talked to an expert in applied physiology in extreme environments who said that in his view there aren't robust studies backing up these claims. But he also said that kind of doesn't matter because even if it is just placebo, that has a real effect too. Yeah, but back to Maine. There are groups up and down the coast who dip together all year like there's one on Mount Desert Island called Cold Tits, Warm Hearts, which I definitely we have to have that in the show.
Nate Hegyi: That's amazing. I love that name.
Justine Paradis: Very joyful. And in Portland, there's a group called Two Maine Mermaids, which organizes monthly, full moon dips. And I joined one of them earlier this fall to ask some of the 50 some odd folks there on the beach….
Justine Paradis: So what's the why do you do this?
Cholla Foot: I am trying to sort of be vulnerable. It's freezing cold and like it feels kind of scary.
Juliet Cox: I like doing it just because it's kind of fun, kind of silly. It's kind of nice to do something silly on occasion. So much of what we do is planned and sensible and thoughtful, and this is just a bit silly. And it's a lot of it's a lot of it's a great community, too. Yeah. I've met a lot of nice people through this.
Nate Hegyi: Oh, man, that is what the world needs more of right now is just pure silliness. Yeah.
Justine Paradis: Yeah, so that was, you just heard Cholla Foote and Juliet Cox, but one of the people on the beach I met, her name is Anne Buckwalter. She perfectly summed up the reason that I am bringing this to you right now.
Anne Buckwalter: I just moved back to Maine after being away for a long time, and I had a really hard time with the winters when I lived here before. And so part of the reason, something I wanted to do when I moved back was to be friends with winter. And like, redefine my relationship to it.
Justine Paradis: Becoming friends with winter. And redefining your relationship to the cold, to the dark. This is the topic of today's show.
THEME IN
Nate Hegyi: Like the cold water swimmers of Maine, the team here at Outside/In is trying to be better friends with winter. And so, for the third year in a row, we are sharing our recommendations for not just getting through the cold and dark. It is our annual winter survival and thrival…? show?
Justine Paradis: Survthrival Show.
Nate Hegyi: I really love that term. I hope that you made up that term.
This is the show in which the Outside/In team gathers around the proverbial fire and swaps recommendations for winter, based on the idea of embracing the season, leaning into the cold.
We would love to hear your recommendations as well. When you send us voice memos, we play them on the podcast and then we can also share them in our free newsletter. Email a voice recording with your winter tips to our email. Our address is outsidein@nhpr.org. And who knows? You know, you might just hear ‘em on the show.
THEME FADE
Nate Hegyi: Okay! Let's introduce our esteemed panel of winter surf tribal experts. We've already heard from our producer, Justine Paradis. Hey. Also with us, our own Felix Poon.
Felix Poon: Hello.
Nate Hegyi: Hey hey – give me, give me a more energetic “hello.”
Felix Poon: Hello! Yeah, I'm here.
Justine Paradis: Love the cues. This is a very natural.
Nate Hegyi: Always. Always natural. Our guest for this year, Mara Hoplamazian. Climate and environmental reporter here at New Hampshire Public Radio.
Mara Hoplamazian: Hello.
Nate Hegyi: Hey.
Justine Paradis: So glad you're here.
Felix Poon: Welcome.
Mara Hoplamazian: I'm so glad to be here.
Nate Hegyi: So, Mara, we'll all get to know you a little bit better over the course of the next hour or so. But can you just introduce yourself? Like, what are you working on? Anything you're psyched about these days?
Mara Hoplamazian: Yeah, for sure. So I run by degrees, which is our climate reporting project at NHPR. Right now I'm working on a couple climate solutions stories that I'm super pumped about.
Nate Hegyi: Nice.
Mara Hoplamazian: I get to hopefully shadow an electrician in the next few days. So I'm pumped about that. And yeah, just really excited about coming out of the election doing some more solutions stories.
Nate Hegyi: Mara, What's your what's your relationship to the cold and dark? Like, where are you starting from today?
Mara Hoplamazian: So I'm pretty, I'm pretty brave about the cold. I grew up in Chicago. I've been known to take a polar plunge once in a while, but I'm. I'm much less cool with the dark.
So I moved to New Hampshire about a year ago. One of the firs t things I did was I went to this vintage store because I needed a couple of plates, as one does when they're moving. And the woman at the vintage store asked me why I was buying mismatched plates, and I explained I had just moved and I was decorating and she got all excited, started giving me recommendations. You know, you should join my husband's baseball league. I think she gave me some restaurants to try, and then she looked me in the eye and she said, But the big thing is that you have to remember the darkness is different here. And I was like,
Nate Hegyi: oooh
Justine Paradis: What?
Mara Hoplamazian: Right. Ominous, right? Yeah, but she was right. It gets really dark and it gets dark so early. And she was like, you know, you just got to remember, the darkness is different. You got to learn how to survive it. So I've been I've been thinking about that. And that's I'm excited about this show today.
MUX STING: Disarray, Autohacker
Nate Hegyi: So let's start with our tips for getting outside in the winter and then we'll get to cozy recommendations later. So this is your favorite gear, motivational strategies, outdoor activities, things that get you out of the door and embracing what winter has to offer. Felix, why don't you go first?
Felix Poon: Sure. Yeah. Staying warm. So one of my favorite base layers is the waffle knit thermal layer.
Mara Hoplamazian: Oh, waffle knit.
Justine Paradis: Delicious.
Felix Poon: Which I'm actually currently wearing right now.
Nate Hegyi: What is that? I've never heard of that. Maybe I've seen it. I've just never heard of it.
Justine Paradis: Is it something about the texture? Does the texture make it so that it's warmer?
Felix Poon: Yeah, because it is shaped like. Like. Like a waffle… yeah, usually, like, wear it under something. It's a base layer. Yeah. So, you know, if I'm going out, like, I don't want to wear a sweater. I want to be more kind of, you know, button down shirt and color kind of look like then I can wear this under it and still be warm. But actually, the thing I really want to recommend to you all, which maybe is a little bit more novel, is this idea of winter sunbathing.
Mara Hoplamazian oooh.
Nate Hegyi: Sounds cool.
Felix Poon:So how do I explain this? Basically, what I would do is take like a picnic blanket, go to the woods in the park that is next to me. Lay it down on the ground, you know, And I bring along a friend. So we we sit on the picnic blanket and we just let that sun, like, warm us up. And the thing is, like, it seems like a paradox, but I feel warmer when I'm outside in the sun. Then when I'm inside with the heat on.
Justine Paradis: Yeah. It’s that waffle effect.
Nate Hegyi: Yeah, that's.
Felix Poon: You are. Maybe you are wearing my waffle shirt while I'm out there. I still, you know, you still do want to have, like, a good winter jacket, maybe some long johns, but do have your face exposed so you can kind of, like, take that sun, like warming up your face.
Nate Hegyi: Reminds me of that. That episode in, uh. Do you ever see that “Portlandia” episode?
Justine Paradis: yes!
Nate Hegyi: Where they're chasing around the sun and it's just cloudy all the time and like, the sun pops out and everybody, like, runs to the one little spot where the sun is gleaming out of the clouds and they're like, Oh, God, Sun, sun, sun.
Justine Paradis: There's a Portlandia episode for every situation. It's so good.
Felix Poon: I feel like the sun is a natural light therapy, you know, like when we're talking about seasonal affective disorder. Yeah, like people are trying to sell you these light boxes or special lighting you can put in your home. Just go outside.
Justine Paradis: You’re saying: just don't get ripped off.
Nate Hegyi: Get some sun
Mara Hoplamazian: that makes the days with sun so much more special. You know, when it comes out, you got to go snatchit up.
Felix Poon: Yeah. I would also just recommend like taking quiet pauses with your friend to, like, really notice and feel the sun in your skin. Like, almost like you're doing like a meditation.
Mara Hoplamazian: Felix, do you notice if, if they snow on the ground that you feel the sun reflect up from the snow too?
Felix Poon: Oh, that's a good question. I will try to pay attention to that the next time that happens.
Justine Paradis: Yeah, I do feel like I need sunglasses more in the winter, actually, because of that effect, Mara, so that's a great question.
Nate Hegyi: I want one of those cool those cool mountaineering goggles, you know, the ones that they see the like like the full eye coverage.
Mara Hoplamazian: You can get the same you can get the same effect if you put duct tape on the sunglasses.
Nate Hegyi: Yeah. If it doesn't look as cool.
Mara Hoplamazian: Or you can argue it looks cooler.
Nate Hegyi: Does that look cooler?
Justine Paradis: That’s subjective.
Nate Hegyi: I'll try that.
MUX STING: Oui Hours, Xavy Rasan
Nate Hegyi: What about you, Justine?
Justine Paradis: So mine, I think maybe seems is maybe a bit basic, but hear me out here. If there's something that you want to do, like, say, go cross-country skiing or just, you know, get outside when your motivation is maybe not so great.
Get a friend to do it with you, but maybe specifically someone that you kind of want to impress a little bit, like someone you want to get to know better. So there's an element of like, oh, like I can't flake because you know, other well, otherwise this friendship is doomed. So it's the commitment of having to meet someone who, who your, your friendship is still developing. So I did this one winter when I decided I wanted to get my exercise by swimming. And as I have already indicated, it is challenging for me to get up in the early morning. But that's when the light was really nice in the local pool… sort of green and aqua in the local pool… . But shout out to Courtney, who would pick me up at like 545 in the morning. And we did this for months.
Nate Hegyi: And you wouldn't have gone out there without Courtney picking you up at 545. Like, the motivation would not have been there.
Justine Paradis: No, I would have intended to. Yeah, but, you know…
Nate Hegyi: Yeah… You need that buddy motivation.
Justine Paradis: But I mean, unfortunately for like, this is just sort of terrible news for many of us that unfortunately the wisdom is correct that exercising in the morning just improves your entire day.
Nate Hegyi: And oh, it always does.
Mara Hoplamazian: Dang it.
Nate Hegyi: It is just rude.
Justine Paradis:. It's rude that that's correct.
Nate Hegyi: It is rude that it's that. Yeah. I don't want to hear that.
MUX STING: The Glitch Train, Autohacker
Nate Hegyi: How about you, Mara?
Mara Hoplamazian: So darkness is the hardest thing for me about winter. So this winter I'm making myself a darkness survival kit, you know, just like you'd put on a puffy coat or some wool. Or maybe Felix, your waffle mitt to brave the cold. I'm making a little toolbox for the darkness.
Justine Paradis: Oh, I love this great idea.
Mara Hoplamazian: So I switched out the batteries in my old headlamp. I'm ordering a high, viz vest to wear on my nighttime walks and also probably a box of glow sticks because I keep seeing people with little glow sticks on their dogs, which I think is very cute. And I'm like, Why can't I have glowsticks?
Nate Hegyi: Oh, yeah, like the necklaces?
Justine Paradis: yeah, it's a literal glow up.
Mara Hoplamazian: Or like some bracelets.
Felix Poon: Mara, you’re going to be the coolest kid on the block.
Mara Hoplamazian: Thanks, Felix. I also got a moon calendar so I can see what days are going to be best for getting out to appreciate the moonlight. I love that. Another nice of light, I think is sort of underappreciated. There's a little park near my house. I realized it's a good place to see what it's like to just walk around in the moonlight with no extra lighting assistance. I'm pretty scared of the dark, and so I don't usually do that. But, you know, it's like a place I feel safe and it feels almost like daytime when there's a full moon out there.
Nate Hegyi: You know, it's funny, My my wife lives up in Alaska. She's there for an internship and she keeps, like, lowkey, trying to convince me that we should move to Fairbanks, which is like the coldest.
Mara Hoplamazian: And darkest!
Nate Hegyi: And darkest place on earth. And she's like, No, no, no, no, no. They have the aurora, and the aurora changes everything and I want to believe her. I don't believe her, but that would be pretty cool. That would be that would make like the darkness worth it. If you get to see like the Aurora.
Mara Hoplamazian: I feel like that sort of charges you up for like at least a few weeks. Like you see it once and you're like, you got your light quotient.
Felix Poon: We're all just like batteries. We need to recharge on some sort of light.
MUX STING: Yellow Leaf, Autohacker
Justine Paradis: Nate. What's yours?
Nate Hegyi: What's mine? Oh, God. That's me. Your turn., So mine is another way that I've been dealing with the darkness lately. Because I like to exercise in the evenings. Because just like Justine, I am not a morning person, but, you know, when it's dark and you. You know, you don't want to run. And I've got foot problems. So if I slip on the ice, then it's just like I've twisted my ankle again and then I'm out. So a couple of years ago, I got into playing pond hockey. I grew up playing hockey but stopped after high school and then got back into it. And I think it's like a way more accessible, fun version of hockey, in my opinion. You know, you need skates and a stick, but that's pretty much it. So you don't spend like $1,000 on like shoulder pads and all that other equipment and then like getting into a league and all that pressure. And the way we play it here at the pond in Missoula, Montana, there's no net. It's just like a 4x4 piece of lumber that you try to hit with the puck. And it makes this sound like in the cold of a puck hitting wood. And it's like *click* and it's just so satisfying.
Justine Paradis: It's so I just got chills, I think imagining that.
Nate Hegyi: Oh, I love it. There's also like, no checking, no fights, no aggro, you know, like hockey stuff that happens. People of all skills are out there, little kids, older folks. And these, like late night games are my absolute favorite because you're just freezing meeting random people in your town, drinking a beer or a cider, or if it's really cold and all those things freeze, then maybe tequila or whiskey.
Justine Paradis: That sounds so nice because it's also like you don't necessarily have to be playing to to enjoy that. It's sort of a scene. No.
Nate Hegyi: You can just Yeah. Or even just skating. It's just you get to see the stars and it's that's really wonderful community activity that I’ve fallen in love with.
MUX IN: Can I Hold You Again, John Runefelt
Nate Hegyi: It's not too late to share your tips, by the way, for getting outside in the winter. Our favorite way to get submissions is when you send us a voice recording to our email. That way we can possibly feature them on the podcast. Our email again is outsidein@nhpr.org. Okay. Coming up, our next category of recommendations: warm and cozy indoor ideas. That's after the break.
MUX POST AND FADE
BREAK
MUX IN: Still on Track, Iso Indies
Nate Hegyi: Welcome back to Outside/In’s third annual surthrival show. Our illustrious panel is coming inside from the cold now, and we are ready to share our on-screen recommendations: TV shows, movies to get cozy with. And I am actually going to start this. I feel like a little bit embarrassed recommending this show for some reason, especially with the clip that I'm going to show you, which y'all are just going to be like, that's a really weird show.
Mara Hoplamazian: Start weird, end weird.
Nate Hegyi: it is called Outer Range.
[trailer music]
Outer Range is about a rancher in Wyoming played by Josh Brolin, who finds a giant mysterious hole in the ground and and then really weird stuff starts happening.
Justine Paradis: What is this hole?
Nate Hegyi: Yeah, exactly.
Felix Poon: Like a like a hole that, like, just goes on forever?
Nate Hegyi: Or goes on forever. This is literally a mistake in the universe. A black hole on the middle of his ranch on the ground. Got it. And weird stuff starts [00:21:00] happening as soon as he finds it, including like time travel, strange visions. There's a bison that just keeps popping up in random spots.
Mara Hoplamazian: oooh
Nate Hegyi: It is like a western version of Twin Peaks. You all have seen Twin Peaks before, right?
Justine Paradis: Yeah, weirdo.
Nate Hegyi: Weirdo. Surreal.
Justine Paradis: Kind of sci fi. Kind of horror.
Felix Poon: Is it weird in like, a psychological thriller way?
Nate Hegyi: No, it's weird in a WTF kind of way. Like what? And what I love about the show is that it takes all the tropes of like the modern western.
So think about that show Yellowstone with rodeos, lots of just tough masculinity and then just completely flips them on their head.
There's this one guy, he's a rancher’s son. You know, he drives ATVs and pickup trucks… and he’s constantly breaking into song.
[Outer Range Vanessa Williams scene]
Mara Hoplamazian: [laughing]
Justine Paradis: What?
[scene ends]
Mara Hoplamazian: Nate, I need to watch the show.
Nate Hegyi: The best way I can explain it is like. It's like Twin Peaks. It's like the western version of Twin Peaks.
MUX STING: Skinfolk (Smartface Remix)
Nate Hegyi: All right. Who's next? Uh, Mara. What's yours?
Mara Hoplamazian: Okay, so I'm. I'm not really recommending a movie or TV show, but instead an activity. It's an all-winter trilogy marathon.
Felix Poon: Ooh.
Mara Hoplamazian: So when the pandemic started, my pod at the time and I, which is about six people, each picked our favorite trilogy and then watched all of them. So that's a lot of movies.
Felix Poon: That's so cool.
Nate Hegyi: That’s a, that’s a wonderful idea.
Mara Hoplamazian: We watch some of them back to back, like in one day. We watched others over the course of three consecutive days or, you know, more time. But it required a lot of trust and a lot of downtime and [00:23:30] also a lot of popcorn.
Felix Poon: Wait, whhat are some of the trilogies you'll want?
Mara Hoplamazian: The first trilogy we watched was Back to the Future. It was suggested by my friend Grace. It was something that they had loved as a kid. We got to hear about why it was important to them, all the things they thought about it as a young person, how it helped shape them. And I really love the scene where Marty and Doc Brown are in the JCPenney parking lot and the DeLorean comes speeding towards them. And it's like, you know, creating the fire tire tracks under it.
Back to the Future // Doc Brown: This is what makes time travel possible. The flux capacitor.
Marty: The flux capacitor?!
Mara Hoplamazian: The flux capacitor.
Nate Hegyi: The flux capacitor. You know, what I love about Christopher Lloyd is that I feel like he's been old for a really, really long time. Like, that was made in 1987, and he and he's still alive. And he was, he looked old in 1987.
Justine Paradis: Suspicious.
Mara Hoplamazian: Totally. Well, you know, a lot of us picked trilogies that were important to us as kids. And it was a really fun way to get to know each other's sort of inner worlds. And in a time that felt really uncertain
Nate Hegyi: Yeah
Mara Hoplamazian: where we all were all sort of just like trying to cozy up and survive. It was kind of like time travel, you know, without a flux capacitor. We got to look into each other's childhoods a little bit and I got to watch a bunch of movies I probably never would have elected to watch on my own. No offense to my dear friends.
Mara Hoplamazian: I watched you know, like the first three Jason Bourne movies.
Justine Paradis: I actually kinda love those.
Mara Hoplamazian: all three extended edition, Lord of the Rings
Felix Poon: oh yesss
Mara Hoplamazian: Movies in Like quick succession. So it was just it was it was a good it was a good movie education also.
Nate Hegyi: Was there anything that you watched that was just like not not as not didn't hold up?
Mara Hoplamazian: Well, okay, My recommendation or my selection for my trilogy was kind of bold because I hadn't seen the second two. My favorite my favorite movie of all time is The Matrix. And so I was like, We have [00:25:30] to watch the Matrix trilogy, but I haven't seen there's a second and a third and now a fourth, right? So it's no longer a trilogy? Yeah, the fourth one wasn't out when I, when I elected to watch The Matrix.
Nate Hegyi: But you have now. Were they good?
Mara Hoplamazian: I, I love The Matrix and I –
Justine Paradis: They hold up!
Nate Hegyi: – I hard a hard time sitting through the second + third. The first one is the best one.
Nate Hegyi: Justine was like, They hold up just like no, but they like.
Mara Hoplamazian:I still think they're worthwhile watching. I think it's a brilliant movie franchise, but the first one is the best.
[MUX IN: Forex, Xavy Rasan]
Morpheus: Do you believe in fate, Neo?
Neo: No.
Morpheus: Why not?
Neo: Because I don’t like the idea that I’m not in control of my life.
Morpheus: I know exactly what you mean.
Nate Hegyi:Felix, what's your TV or movie recommendation?
Felix Poon: I don't know if this movie recommendation is a little too on the nose for Outside/In, but basically, I bring up this movie any time I'm talking to someone and the topic of agriculture comes up and I'm like, Oh, do you know what regenerative agriculture is? And they're like, No. And I'm like, Well, I'll tell you. But then I'm also like, You should just watch the movie Kiss the Ground. It opens with this news montage of all these dire scenes of the climate crisis,
Kiss the Ground: … a dire warning about climate change… natural disasters like hurricanes or wildfires.
Felix Poon: like mass flooding, forest fires, melting glaciers… and then the tone of the music shifts.
Woody Harrelson: This is the story of a simple solution. A way to heal our planet and keep our species off the extinction list.
Nate Hegyi: Oh, man, I'm really happy that Woody Harrelson was in that.
Mara Hoplamazian: He's got a great voice.
Woody Harrelson: The solution I'm talking about is right under our feet. And it's as old as dirt.
Nate Hegyi: All we need is lots of agriculture. Wait, what's the argument here?
Mara Hoplamazian: No tilling.
Felix Poon: Yeah. No, No tilling. Keeping our agricultural land basically planted with perennials. Doing crop rotation, a whole bunch of stuff that I feel like it goes by a few different names, like, you know, regenerative agriculture, permaculture... I wouldn't say they're exactly the same, but they kind of like overlap in their principles.
Justine Paradis: that's like Masanobu Fukuoka is one of the principles of the do-nothing farming that we did an episode on like a year ago. Yeah, I'm really into this.
Mara Hoplamazian: I feel like we all need more fun ways to learn about climate change.
Nate: Yeah. Yeah. I want to watch this.
MUSIC STING: Good Ol’ Mexican Tequila, Autohacker
Nate Hegyi: Great. Awesome. Felix, that's a great recommendation. Justine, what do you got for us?
Justine Paradis: Sure. Well, so [00:31:30] I similar to Mara, I have decided to do a kind of a strategy as well, for on-screen viewing. I recommend picking a creator or maker and watching and reading and listening to every single thing they've ever made.
Nate Hegyi: Oh, wow.
Justine Paradis: And I specifically recommend that this person be Julia Torres.
Julio Torres: Hi. Hi. Hey. Hello. Uh, my. My name is Julio. I am from El Salvador. I am an Aquarius, and I am here to show you my favorite shapes. I have a lot of shapes, but not a lot of time. So we have to start immediately.
Justine Paradis: Um, that is from Julio Torres’ special on HBO called “My Favorite Shapes” which is just unlike any comedy special I have ever seen. It is excellent. He is also the writer responsible for, in my opinion, the best SNL shorts of the past several years, like “Papyrus” and “Wells for Boys.”
Nate Hegyi: “Wells for Boys” is my favorite! I love that!
Justine Paradis: He is responsible! And he also writes and stars in the spectacular and extremely weird “Los Espooky’s” on HBO. Yeah. Which is about a group of friends in an unnamed Latin American country. And they have a business in which they stage ‘spooks.’ So they get hired by a priest who's, like, feeling threatened by the young hot priest at the monastery to do an exorcism and prove that he's, like, still relevant. And they get hired by the mayor of a dying beach town to invent a sea monster to attract tourists to the town. And like, similar to yours, Nate, it has, like, a very specific world that you're in. Like, it has the vibe of Brazilian telenovelas, “moody… and sexy” and kind of “obsessed with death.” And the world operates with, like, a sense of magic in it. Like, for instance, Julio Torres's character Andres has a direct line to the moon who he'll often call for, like, minor and petty favors.
Mara Hoplamazian: I wish I had that.
Justine Paradis: Yeah, I know. And the moon's costume design is very good also.
La Luna: Ola, Andrecito.
Andres: Si, ola Luna, mira…
Justine Paradis: He’s like, can you just go full for just a second so I can find my earring, which I just lost? And the moon is like, oh, like our friendship is very one sided right now.
Andres: [00:33:50] Luna, por favor, es muy importante para mí. Significa mucho.
La Luna: Esta bien. basolo siempre. My encantada. [00:34:00]
Andres: [00:34:00] Okay. Gracias, luna, gracias….
Justine Paradis: I think I can get the sense of that. Even if you don't speak Spanish. He’s like, okay baiiii! So, and he does more stuff. He's written a children's book about a toilet plunger that wants to be a vase.
And so I’m into Julio Torres right now but the reason I think it’s nice, is, to follow someone this, especially someone who works across different mediums is you start to get to see the connections between the things they do, and the progression of a theme, or the progression of a joke. You get introduced to other parts of the production like the people they’re working with or ayemusic they use… Like it's just a really nice way of discovery, I think.
Nate Hegyi: That's a great idea. That's a really solid idea. I should do that this winter. I got to find my creator.
Mara Hoplamazian: Yeah, I'm so excited to watch the shapes.
Justine Paradis: Oh my God. My favorite shapes [00:35:30] is like one of the most excellent things that exists… His mom did the set design.
Nate Hegyi: Really?
Justine Paradis: Yeah.
MUX IN: Straight Fuego, Matt Large
Julio Torres: I'm very excited that this shape is here, but when I originally asked the shape if you wanted to do the show, he was like a little hesitant about it, a little worried that we were going to find him to be mainstream, I guess. But I'm like, What are you talking about? Everyone loves a square.
MUX POST
Nate Hegyi: Okay, So our third and final category is off screen indoor activities. Tips for when it is time to just turn off the TV and find something, anything else to do. So, Mara, what do you recommend?
Mara Hoplamazian: Okay, I recommend linocut printing. Have you guys ever done linocuts?
Nate Hegyi: No.
Felix Poon: No. What is that?
Mara Hoplamazian: Okay. I was introduced to linocuts when I was a middle schooler and I've gotten really back into it in the last couple of months. But basically how it works is you get a little tool and a slab of linoleum, which kind of feels like rubber, I guess, and you carve out a design.
Felix Poon: Linoleum from like linoleum, like countertops.
Mara Hoplamazian: Yeah, but, but the like art supply linoleum vibe isn't exactly…
Justine Paradis: Like it's just like a sheet. Yeah, a sheet of paper. But it's linoleum.
Mara Hoplamazian: Yeah. And you carve out a design and then you roll some ink onto it and you make a print. And you can also do this with potatoes if you don't feel like procuring linoleum from your nearby store. But the materials are relatively affordable, you can get like a $20 kit. There's a ton of YouTube tutorials so you can learn how to do it pretty easily. I think of myself as someone who's like bad at art generally. I like can't really draw, I can't really paint. I find it [00:37:30] frustrating…
Justine Paraids: Come on!
Mara Hoplamazian: Well, I like, you know, I always, like, have a vision of what I want my thing to look like and I can never achieve it. But with lino printing, like there's something really freeing about it. Like there's an element of inevitable failure, which I find really comforting. You don't know what your design is going to look like until you actually print it. And so you just sort of spend all this meditative time slicing this sharp little knife through this linoleum, and then you figure out what it looks like on the other side. And it's like, if you've ever watched someone do woodcuts, it's [00:38:00] the same thing.
Nate Hegyi: Okay.
Mara Hoplamazian: But it's easier than a woodcut because it's literally it's like rubbery and sort of buttery and, you know, chip away. It would.
Justine Paradis: Buttery. and they also make nice holiday gifts.
Nate Hegyi: Great suggestion. What kind of prints have you done right now?
Mara Hoplamazian: I'm doing a bunch of my friends. I got them to send me what their favorite flower is. And so I have, like, done a bunch of favorite flower prints, and I'm sending them off as postcards. I did like a little frog [00:38:30] because I thought it was cute Design.
Justine Paradis: Cute.
MUX STING: Come Correct, Sarah the Illstrumentalist
Nate Hegyi: What about you, Justine?
Justine Paradis: Mine is kind of actually. Maybe I just realized it's a little bit similar to my last one, which is like, get very into something and in this case.
Nate Hegyi: Get obsessive.
Justine Paradis: If you have not already done so in your life, take t to the next level. Here is my vision for everyone listening today. [00:39:00]
Nate Hegyi: Okay.
Justine Paradis: You select a teapot that is beautiful to you. Mine is made of glass because the color of the tea I think is part of the joy.You are finding a source for loose leaf tea, which is not only better volume and value, but it's much higher quality than a box of bagged tea, which is typically you're buying like tea, dust, [00:39:30] like dregs,you know, at the bottom of it really, you're essentially getting ripped off.
Nate Hegyi: Oh, that's a bummer.
Justine Paradis: It is sad. I mean, not every single.
Nate Hegyi: Throw away my throat coat.
Justine Paradis: I like Throat Coat here and there, but I'm not trying to diss anyone's favorite tea, but I'm just I'm just saying, like, if you did not know, that is a practice. When you prepare the tea, you are paying attention to steep times for like green versus black versus herbal tea under steeping results in weak tea over steeping can bring out bitter flavors. [00:40:00] It makes a difference. You might pay attention to your hot water temperature, although I. I personally find that less important than the steep time. And you are exploring the world of tea for like what you like at different times of day, different seasons. Like hibiscus is almost like wine. I think it's very fruity and somehow like salty, tangy, really nice on ice. Chamomile is maybe kind of a basic recommendation, but it is a not basic tea in my opinion. Like very relaxing, good for digestion and sleep. My favorite these days is [00:40:30] pure tea, which is fermented. And it's a it's a tea that has a huge range of flavor like wet straw when some people really do not like that. But, but I do. So I just think getting really into this and like taking a little care in preparing your tea is a relatively accessible, you know it's a better price point than like getting into say, wine or something that right paying attention to flavor or can just have like a very beautiful calming impact on your quality of life.
Nate Hegyi: I used to dealt with coffee. I got [00:41:00] really into like, you know, figuring out your pour over times….
Justine Paradis: I mean, you can feel like, like, like, oh, am I being like a snob here? And like I, I would say like, you're just getting interested in the world and like, you don't have to, like, impose judgment on like what other people are doing.
Nate Hegyi: Exactly. Like the snobby ness comes in if you're like, Oh, you're drinking.
Felix Poon: Steep times can get quite precise. So there was this one time I bought loose leaf green tea from Japan as a gift to my dad. And the thing came with this. This chart, like the x axis, would be like temperature of water and the y axis would be like time. And then it would tell you, like, what exactly like the results will be. And when you follow it, it's, it's yeah, it almost [00:42:00] unlocks this like. Completely different flavor that's like,, where did this even come from?
Nate Hegyi: That is so cool.
Justine Paradis: So, Felix, you're you're at the high. You're at like tea level seven.
Felix Poon: No, no, that's not. My dad is at tealevel infinity, like me. I actually never buy tea. I just get gifted tea and it's like, Oh, okay.
Nate Hegyi: oh, that's great.
Justine Paradis: I recommend getting presents.
MUX STING: On Our Own, Vaain
Nate Hegyi: I want to throw out a book recommendation or specifically an author recommendation. A person I just read this winter is Willy Valentin. And specifically, the book is Don't Skip Out on Me. And it was one of those books. Do you ever go to the bookstore and you just you're just browsing and you're like, I don't know what I want to read. And you see a cover and you're just like, That looks interesting.
Justine Paradis: It calls to you.
Nate Hegyi: It calls to you. It was just a picture of the Nevada desert, you know, But the basin and range [00:43:30] desert, which is different from the Mojave, it's like arguably the I don't want to say the ugliest desert. I love it. But it's just you know, it's just like Dusty. And I was like, That looks cool and I like the name. Don't skip out on me. And apologies. It is another Western themed story about ranchers that flips the ideas of Western masculinity on their heads.
Mara Hoplamazian: Seems like a theme here!
Nate Hegyi: I love that theme. In this case, it's about a teenage ranch hand in Nevada who wants to prove himself as a boxer in Arizona seems [00:44:00] like a pretty classic tale. Needless to say, it doesn't go as planned. Very simple story, but it feels so incredibly grounded in what it's like to live in the modern rural West or even like modern rural America, you know, full of gas stations, fast food press towns, open country. And it's just got one of the most heartbreaking, surprising endings I've ever read. It's one of those ones, you know, when you're reading a book and [00:44:30] you flip to the next page and you're like, wait, no, that's it. It's done. Oh, and you're just that's how it ends. Are you like, are you serious?
Felix Poon: It's like every Murakami book I've ever read.
Nate Hegyi: I read it on a plane, and I just sat there in my chair, just like 15 minutes staring in front of me, just in shock, you know, like, and I, it's one of those endings to, you know, like, first you like, I hated [00:45:00] that ending. That was a terrible ending. But then it, like, sits for a couple of days and you're like, No, that was a great ending. I really loved that.
Justine Paradis: This is an excellent, great job recommending this. I'm very intrigued.
Nate Hegyi: So, Willy, Valentin, don't skip out on me. That's my recommendation. Finally. Felix, what is yours?
Felix Poon: Yeah. So you just gave a suggestion about reading. I want to give a suggestion about writing. Winter for me is a time to, like, slow down. And so when it comes to writing, basically the suggestion is just get off your laptop. I purchased a typewriter just before last winter and I actually really like typing. [00:46:30] It's like this very satisfying, like clack, clack, clack, clack, clack. And, you know, sometimes I'll write letters to friends, sometimes I'll write a letter to myself and mail it to myself.
Justine Paradis: Oh, wow.
Nate Hegyi: that's cool.
Felix Poon: The nice thing about a typewriter as opposed to a laptop is like, fewer distractions, right?. And plus, it's kind of like, I think this is what you were getting at with the the, the what was it, the lino type.
Mara Hoplamazian: Lino cuts.
Felix Poon: The lino cuts. Like you make a mistake… Just keep going. Yeah. There's no, you know, backspace. I mean, technically there is, but it doesn't quite work as, as, as well as a laptop. The ink is on the paper, so. [00:47:30] So just keep going. Yeah.
Nate Hegyi: You got to own the words that you just wrote.
Justine Paradis: I love that a lot of these recommendations, like from the the movie trilogy one to, you know, writing letters to friends, a lot of them are about like. Activities you're doing by yourself, but you are connecting to your community still. [00:48:00]
Nate Hegyi: Right.
Justine Paradis: It's a nice theme.
Nate Hegyi: Yeah. Yeah, It's a beautiful idea. You should definitely write more letters to friends. I never do that. Good. Winter recommendation.
MUSIC: Valentines Blues, John Runefelt
Justine Paradis: Can I just jump in and end on one final note from Betsy, our cold water dipper from earlier?
Nate Hegyi: Yes
Justine Paradis: Because I did ask her about the winter blues and, you know, relationship with darkness, which, you know, I definitely get in the winter often. And she said basically she did not relate. She’s like a hardcore cold winter dipper. But [00:49:30] she did say something else that made me feel like a little closer to that friendship with winter feeling. So I think we should end on that.
Nate Hegyi: Okay.
Betsy Dawkins: Yeah, I have none of that. I love the winter and I love the dark. I think it's from growing up on a farm, and it was always so neat to be in the barn when it was dark outside and it was, you know, you're just finishing up milking the cow or something, and. And then you walk across [00:50:00] the road to the to the house and lights are on. It looks so warm and cozy. It's just, wintertime, I just love.
THEME DROP
Nate Hegyi: That was wonderful. I need to have more of Betsy's vibe when it comes to winter.
Felix Poon: Let’s channel our inner Betsy’s.
Mara Hoplamazian: Yeah.
Justine Paradis: Channel our inner Betsy.
Nate Hegyi: This episode was produced and mixed by Justine Paradise. Thank you very much to our special guest, Mara Hoplamazian. You can find their work at nhpr.org/Climate. Special thanks to the many cold water swimmers. Justine spoke to Kelsey Hartley, Caitlin Hopkins, and Judy Green. Jansa. Thanks also to Michael Tipton. Today's episode was edited by Taylor Quimby. Outside/In’s executive predictor… executive predictor?!
Felix Poon: What is she predicting for us?
Outside/In’s Executive producer is Rebecca Lavoie. Music in this episode came from Autohacker, Nul Tiel Records, John Runefelt, Blue Dot Sessions, Xavy Rasan, Iso Indie, and Vaain.
Outside/in is a production of New Hampshire Public Radio.