Hear ye, hear ye! Winter is fast approaching, and it is time for our fifth annual ‘surthrival’ special, in which the Outside/In team reframes the endurance sport that is winter. We’ve got suggestions for thriving during the cold-season, which we hope will help you positively look forward to dirty snow banks and single-digit temperatures.

This year, though, there’s a twist. A listener asked us for advice on what to do before the snow starts to fall, when it’s gray and bleak. This is that dingy in-between period, known in New England as ‘stick season.’

Host Nate Hegyi is joined by Kate Dario, Taylor Quimby, and special guest Zoey Knox, offering suggestions for indoors and out, on-screen and off, and both serious and silly.

Featuring Eric Diven and special guest Zoey Knox.

Tips for getting outside

Auroras in New Hampshire. Photo by Zoey Knox.

Get starry-eyed with a night sky app — I use an app called Night Sky. It really helps me in getting excited about going out after dark. It feels like I'm on a scavenger hunt when I'm going out to look at the moon, or I'm going out to look at a specific star that's supposed to be really bright tonight. It kind of romanticizes the darkness, rather than it being something to avoid. — Zoey Knox
Time-shift work, and walk everywhere — I believe you can make any city walkable if you try hard enough. I will walk to lunch even if I'm the only person on the streets. I bought recently (sort of a big girl purchase, but I use them every day) the Sony Over-ear Bluetooth headphones. They actually keep your ears really warm, which is nice. — Kate Dario
Road race BINGO — Find a local race (there's a lot of holiday half marathons in December, even up north) and enjoy it as a spectator sport. You can look up race routes at runningintheusa.com, bring some lawn chairs and snacks, and then pull out your BINGO card. You can copy ours here or make your own using a free bingo card generator. — Taylor Quimby (idea courtesy of NHPR’s Christina Phillips)
Get your cold-weather camping on for FREE — My tip for going outside is something called ‘dispersed camping.’ Essentially it’s free camping. You can find places online, just Google “public lands camping.” Once you’ve located a spot, go up a logging road, find a turnout. Pitch your tent. Start a fire. Go for a hike the next morning. — Nate Hegyi

On-screen recommendations

Home for Christmas (Netflix) — Everyone is all “Euro-summer this, Euro-summer that.” Well, let me put you on Scandinavian winter. This Norwegian rom-com has lots of Christmas decor, cozy Scandinavian scenes, and a very silly and cute moment involving two mittens that are welded together so you can hold hands in the cold. — Zoey Knox
Somebody, Somewhere (MAX) — It's a feel good and very funny show centered on a platonic friendship. I could tell more about the plot, but there's almost no point — not because it's not interesting, but because it is truly a show about relationships. This is a 100% heartwarming and authentic watch. — Taylor Quimby
My Brilliant Friend (MAX) — You get to see a lot of Italy. You get to see a lot of drama. It's funny. It's beautifully shot. It has amazing costumes, it has amazing performances. It's an epic. You can get swept up in it, and I think it's great for the winter when you want to be somewhere different in time and place. — Kate Dario
Make Spotify playlists for (or with) your friends — I think building a playlist is a really fun way to kill time and to expose people to new music. A couple of ground rules: You got to think about flow. This is a playlist that should not be shuffled. Vibe: It can be bittersweet, joyful, whatever you're feeling, but it's got to have a vibe. And finally, a great playlist has a surprise, a curveball. Dig into an artist's resume, find that deep cut, and surprise your friend. Here’s our playlist for you!

Non-screen indoor recommendations

Read (and cook) with Ina Garten — So I have been reading Ina Garten's new memoir, “Be Ready When the Luck Happens.” It’s the literary equivalent of her handing you a fresh baked tray of brownies. I literally threw a dinner party this weekend because she was talking about coconut cupcakes, and I was like, “if I don't make a coconut cake this weekend I don't think I'll make it.” I did just that, and it was soooo good. — Kate Dario
Start a letter-writing habit — As an adult, most of the mail I get is packages or bills. And that is so boring. But getting (and writing) letters is so fun. There is a tornado in my living room when I am writing letters. Everything's coming out; I've got the fancy pens, I have stickers, I have stamps… I even got a wax seal for Christmas a couple of years ago. Trust me, it’s worth it. — Zoey Knox
Make some new friends at pub trivia — If you're like me (you're getting older and your friend group is dispersed across the country) then it's time to make new friends. And since moving to New Hampshire, my wife and I have noticed that it seems like every brewery has like a weekly trivia night. Find the best one and make it a thing. There are lots of regulars, and it’s a good way to get out of the house and meet new people. — Nate Hegyi
Play a delightfully sophisticated board game about zoos — Ark Nova is the perfect game for an animal-loving Outside/In fan. Now fair warning… if you have not played a board game since Sorry, Scrabble, or Monopoly, this might not be your thing. But if you are into Settlers of Catan or Wingspan, or some of these other a little bit more complex games, this is a pretty great way to spend a few hours.

This game makes building enclosure and placing animals feel like a real accomplishment. Photo by Taylor Quimby

Want to suggest your own ‘stick season’ activity? Email us at outsidein@nhpr.org or call our hotline: 1-844-GO-OTTER.

CREDITS

Host: Nate Hegyi

Produced and mixed by Taylor Quimby.

Additional panelists: Kate Dario and Zoey Knox.

Edited by Rebecca Lavoie

Our staff includes Justine Paradis, Felix Poon, and Marina Henke.

Executive producer: Taylor Quimby

Rebecca Lavoie is NHPR’s Director of On-Demand Audio

Music by Blue Dot Sessions

Outside/In is a production of New Hampshire Public Radio

If you’ve got a question for the Outside/Inbox hotline, give us a call! We’re always looking for rabbit holes to dive down. Leave us a voicemail at: 1-844-GO-OTTER (844-466-8837). Don’t forget to leave a number so we can call you back.

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Audio Transcript

Note: Episodes of Outside/In are made as pieces of audio, and some context and nuance may be lost on the page. Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors.

Nate Hegyi: This is Outside/In. I'm Nate Hegyi and let's save the full introductions for later and just do a first name roll call. Kate?

Kate Dario: Hi.

Nate Hegyi: Zoey?

Zoey Knox: Hello.

Nate Hegyi: Taylor?

Taylor Quimby: Here.

Nate Hegyi: And this, if you can believe it, is our fifth annual ‘surthrival’ special. And this time, I understand we have a special request, right Taylor?

Taylor Quimby: Uh, that is correct. We got an email from a guy named Eric. Afterwards, he and I jumped on a video call. And side note, when he popped up on the screen, we were both wearing flannel button ups, neon Carhartt hats, glasses, and head beards, and I was genuinely like, whoa. Um, he was like my Vermont doppelganger.

On video call: Do you know Noah Kahan?

Eric Diven: Not not personally or anything, but yeah, the whole stick season phenomenon. Definitely identify with that.

[mux]

Nate Hegyi: I really don't like that song.

Zoey Knox: For legal reasons. As someone who famously lives in New England, I love the song Stick Season and have nothing unkind to say about Noah Kahan.

Taylor Quimby: So, Eric, this listener who called in, he is a fan of the show. He has heard our previous ‘surthrival’ specials, where we offer tips on how to endure the long, cold season that is winter in New England. But Eric, he's like, listen, I don't actually need help with that.

Eric Diven: I love winter, I love getting out in the snow. I love being able to snowshoe, you know, in the summertime you don't really you see the woods, but you don't necessarily see the tracks of like, the mice and the squirrels. And in the winter you walk along a path and you see like, oh, hey, a deer crossed and, you know, a coyote and, you know, a rabbit. It makes me realize it is empty as the woods seem sometimes that there's a lot more going on.

Taylor Quimby: So Eric's like, winter's great. What he struggles with is this weird in-between ish season stick season that is like late November to New Year's ish before we get any snow.

Eric Diven: It’s grey. The weather is not appealing to be out in. It's like that damp kind of cold that just feels colder than it is, you know? There's no sun.

Taylor Quimby: It's kind of a hard season to dress for.

Eric Diven: 20 degrees and snowing is a lot easier to dress for than 40 and raining.

Nate Hegyi: It's so true.

Taylor Quimby: I feel like it's the February of fall.

Nate Hegyi: Yeah.

Kate Dario: I was going to say the same thing. The shoulder season, when it gets like, sludgy. And it hasn't really committed to the bit yet. No, it's very hard. It's very hard.

Nate Hegyi: Hasn't committed to the bit. I love that.

Taylor Quimby: So Eric you know he's been trying to get into it. He hunts. So he's gotten into Muzzleloader season which is December. He says that has helped.

Zoey Knox: And what does that mean?

Nate Hegyi: So you know the movie The Patriot?

Kate Dario: Of course. With Heath ledger.

Nate Hegyi: Yes. Flintlock. And then you got to ram the thingy down [makes sound of firing a muzzleloader] It's a thing out here that people do. And I did it. And it was fun.

Zoey Knox: Picturing you in Civil War era winter attire.

Nate Hegyi: Like a tricorn hat, you know. Yeah.

Taylor Quimby: Another thing that Eric is trying to do, like many of us, is to just go for walks.

Eric Diven: You know, I have a Garmin watch and I have a step goal and it's like, oh, okay, it's 5:00, it's dark, but also I need to go get two miles in. I guess I'm going to go and get two miles in, and I resent doing it. And then I come home in a better mood.

Taylor Quimby: But here's the crux of everything is we don't just want to survive winter, right? It's not supposed to be this grueling endurance sport. We want to ‘surthrive’ winter, am I right? So Eric wants to know:

Eric Diven: What do people do that would get me excited to be outside? That doesn't feel like, oh, I'm doing this because I need to do this to maintain my mental health.

Taylor Quimby: And that is why we are here today. Y'all ready for this?

Kate Dario: Oh yeah.

Zoey Knox: Oh, yes.

Nate Hegyi: So you heard it from Eric. It is a stick season ‘surthrival’ special here at Outside/In. For everybody struggling to stay busy right now. We've got you covered. We've got some suggestions. Again I'm Nate Hegyi. Here we go.

Taylor Quimby: I don't know about my suggestions.

Zoey Knox: Oh no!

[mux swells and fades]

Nate Hegyi: All right, so we have assembled a crack team this year, and we are all in the NHPR studios here in Concord, New Hampshire. First we've got producer Kate Dario. Kate, are you a cold weather person.

Kate Dario: I am a lifelong New Englander, so I sort of am without choosing to be. I guess I've dealt with this before and I'll continue dealing with it, I guess.

Nate Hegyi: Nice. We've got executive producer Taylor Quimby. You've done this so many times. I'm not sure we need to banter.

Taylor Quimby: No, no. Skip me. I'm not interesting.

Nate Hegyi: All right. And a very special welcome to Zoey Knox, NPR's audience engagement producer. And I can't believe that we've waited this long to have you here, because you're sort of a pro at suggesting stuff for people to do. Can you tell folks about the Weekender?

Zoey Knox: Oh yes. I write a newsletter, and I'm part of a segment on NPR's Morning Edition called The Weekender, where I suggest ten things to do in New Hampshire every week. Not shameless plug. You can sign up for it at nhpr.org if you feel so inclined.

Nate Hegyi: And do you think it's harder to find stuff to do in the winter or during stick season?

Zoey Knox: I think it's harder to find stuff to do during stick season. I find it the most difficult to come up with ten things to do in this time, kind of before the holidays and then in January, February, because I think people are excited at the beginning of winter to get outside and then, you know, at the end of fall and the end of winter, it can be more difficult.

Nate Hegyi: There's only so many turkey trots that you can recommend.

Zoey Knox: I won't be at a turkey trot, but if that is your ministry, I'm happy for you.

Nate Hegyi: Okay, so we usually do this in three rounds. And first up, we've got tips, tricks and gear that might inspire folks to go outside. Zoey, why don't you kick it off?

Zoey Knox: Oh, yes. I guess this is both a tip and gear for getting outside. I recommend getting a stargazing app. I am very much in the mind that the most romantic thing you can do is text someone about the moon. Like, say, oh, the moon is looking so beautiful tonight, or there's a meteor shower or something like that. Like I live for a text about the moon. I send them out often. I use an app called Night Sky. It really helps me in getting excited about going out after dark. I think, like a lot of people, my instinct is to sit inside and light my candle and read my book, which is so lovely. But it's also good to get outside and I feel like having something. It feels like I'm on a scavenger hunt when I'm going out to look at the moon, or I'm going out to look at a specific star that's supposed to be really bright tonight. It kind of romanticizes the darkness rather than it being something to avoid. And New Hampshire is the physically darkest place I've ever lived, which sometimes gets me down, but it is so lovely for stargazing.

Nate Hegyi: So there are like different days, like different stars will be like popping?

Zoey Knox: Real night sky app lovers will know that you can get notifications of when certain planets are visible. When there's action up in the sky, it has kind of a cool view where when you tilt your phone around, it sort of maps the stars onto what you're actually looking at, which is very fun. So if you see me stomping around my neighborhood, holding my phone up to the sky, that is what I'm doing.

Nate Hegyi: I'm familiar with this app only because I think it was one of the first, like, cool things an iPhone could do.

Taylor Quimby: This is the era when people had like, the app that just looked like a beer, and when you tipped your phone over, the phone would move to the side.

Nate Hegyi: Exactly. Smartphones are amazing.

Zoey Knox: And that is still cool to me in 2024.

[mux swell]

Nate Hegyi: All right, so Zoey's suggestion. Look to the stars. Kate, what do you think?

Kate Dario: I think something you can do to really help, especially in our hybrid remote workplace, is to time shift, to try to find times in the day when there is sunshine that you can get outside. And it can be sort of mundane, but I think it really helps, and it has made a huge difference for me. And I'm lucky that I work here at NPR, where I have some flexibility where I can, you know, start my day a little bit earlier, do some emails, and then around lunchtime, get out for a walk or a run. And that is very important to me because here in New England it is pitch black. By the time 5:00 PM rolls around.

Nate Hegyi: So what do you do? Like what's your what's your go to time shifting activity?

Kate Dario: I believe you can make any city walkable if you try hard enough. So I will walk to lunch even if I'm the only person on the streets. I bought recently, sort of a big girl purchase, but I use them every day... The Sony Over Ear Bluetooth headphones, and they actually keep your ears really warm, which is nice. And yeah, it's lovely. You can get out, walk to lunch, walk to the grocery store, walk to the movie theater after work, just building in sort of ways to get outside that you might drive normally or take a train or something. I think it helps a lot.

Taylor Quimby: This is a great tip because, you know, as much as I want to think that, there's these amazing activities that can get people outside, like it is true that it's so much just about figuring a way to modify your daily life in the winter. And obviously, not everybody has a job where they can do these sorts of things, but like even those of us that do, sometimes you just don't give yourself permission or you like, wait too long in the winter to be like, what am I doing? Why am I not like working out in the middle of the day and working an hour later at night? Or, you know, just like giving myself a break?

Kate Dario: Taylor and I have done a work call while I was walking around my neighborhood for this very reason. So he's a lovely manager in that way to let me let me do these things.

Taylor Quimby: Yeah, I'm definitely fishing for compliments here.

Zoey Knox: Um, I find it kind of whimsical when someone is taking their work calls outside. Our senior digital producer Dan Toohey lives right by the beach, jealous, and is oft taking zoom calls from his porch and will sort of take requests to flip the camera around and let people look at the beach during our zoom meetings. And I think that's so fun. And I forget that it's it's not illegal to take phone calls outside. Like, if I know that I'm actually going to be talking to someone on the phone, I'm like, this is this is great. What do they call that? Habit stacking? I'm going outside and I'm talking on the phone.

Nate Hegyi: Habit stacking.

Taylor Quimby: I've never heard that.

Zoey Knox: Oh, I've been expose myself for watching too much TikTok. Um, that's essentially it is. You try to knock out multiple parts of your routine or sort of like healthy habits at one time, so you can take your walk and get your correspondence.

[mux]

Nate Hegyi: Taylor, what do you got?

Taylor Quimby: Okay, so we've been doing this a long enough time that I was really struggling to come up with something that didn't feel like we've kind of touched on it before. So I was talking about this and my colleague Christina Phillips, who we all know from Civics 101, generously came up with an idea. And I was like, that is amazing. Can I shamelessly steal it?

And she said, yes. So Christina is a big runner, and she was not suggesting that everybody suddenly become an ultra runner like her and just do miles and miles all, all times of year. She suggests that you get into road races as a spectator sport. So basically she's like, find a local race, the longer the better because they're more fun to watch. And there's a lot of holiday half marathons in December, even up north. You can look up race routes at runningintheusa.com, you know, find a cozy spot in the neighborhood, bring some lawn chairs, bring some snacks. She points out that like, if you've got a family and you've got kids that you're just trying to get out of the house and like, burn some energy, like do a high five contest because runners love that stuff. But the crux of this idea for the adults is to do road race bingo.

So I don't know if you've done any races or if you've seen any, but like they are very eclectic experiences. You've got people with either very different vibes or costumes or things like that. So Christine has seen it all. She basically gave us some options. And there's a really cool thing that you can use online. We'll stick it in the show notes. It's like a bingo card generator.

And she's got, let's see, dressed as an animal, pushing a single stroller, pushing a double stroller, person running with a dog, wearing an 80s head sweatband, barefoot runner, which she put for me. But I gotta say, if I see a barefoot runner in December, I'm like, you are doing it wrong. Uh, listening to their music without headphones, pink sneakers, face paint. Person without a shirt, wearing a cowboy hat. And you can just keep going and going and going.

But what I love about this is that it's like it helps support community events, which tend to be fun. It's going to get you out of the house. Maybe it's going to inspire you to run, or maybe it's going to inspire you to feel great about the fact that you're not running.

Nate Hegyi: I think, like whether you feel inspired to do a big race or not depends on where you are in the mileage. You know, like if you're like five miles from the end of a marathon, I feel like you're watching people in like the worst pain imaginable and you're just like, wow, I feel actually pretty good about not running right now. Like see a guy, like, heel striking. Is he like, you know, speed walks down the road.

Kate Dario: I was going to say I'm from Boston and I have a love hate relationship with my hometown. I would say, except on Marathon Monday, I, like, I think is the most beautiful thing in the world to watch people running. I think this is a great idea. I think as a spectator, I'm not the world's biggest crier. Every Patriot's Day, like clockwork, I start weeping at the Boston Marathon because it is so beautiful to see people I love. When you see reunions between runners and you see their family there, you see people wearing flags from all over the world. I think this is a great idea. I always go on a run. It's always like two miles and I'm like, I basically just ran the Boston Marathon. Like, that always helps me up. This is a great idea.

[mux]

Nate Hegyi: Um, Taylor, I skipped myself, I realized.

Taylor Quimby: You did, but that's okay. You can go last.

Nate Hegyi: Cool. I'm gonna go. I almost forgot about myself. All right, so my tip for going outside is something called dispersed camping. So normally you can go to a campground. You know, you book, you spend $30, you book a site, there's a bunch of like, screaming kids and dogs, like ten feet away from you. It's crowded, but those campgrounds close, you know, when it gets colder. And so that's when you can go out and disperse camp. So essentially what this is, is free camping. You get in your car, you drive to some public land. So that could be the National Forest Service land Bureau of Land Management. You can find them online. Just Google public lands camping, go up a logging road, find a turnout. Pitch your tent. Start a fire. Go for a hike the next morning and they allow you to camp for up to 14 days if you want to.

Taylor Quimby: Wow, that's a long time.

Nate Hegyi: Yeah, sometimes 21 days in certain states. It's just like a great way to kill a not snowy weekend, so long as it's not muddy. And also I'm just going to say, I have become a connoisseur of sleeping in vehicles. Like, I can give you a recommendation on how to sleep in almost any vehicle from, like kicking the back out of a Toyota Corolla so that you can kind of stretch out into the trunk to like having a van or an SUV or a Subaru. There are many ways to sleep inside a car that are kind of cozy.

Taylor Quimby: I'm impressed. This is the sort of advice that I would have really enjoyed in my 20s. I will say, having just hit 40, I'm less excited about camping in my car, but I could be convinced with the right enthusiastic camping partners, I must say.

Nate Hegyi: I think it's all about your camping partner.

Taylor Quimby: Well, now that you're in New Hampshire, you can be my camping partner sometime.

Nate Hegyi: I just found places in New England which I did not expect to find dispersed camping. And it's here.

Taylor Quimby: How's the Massachusetts camping?

Kate Dario: I can't say I don't really have a camping family growing up. I have not done a lot of camping, but I will say in a professional capacity. I've done a lot of reporting in the White Mountains, in the national Forest, and I've spent a lot of time there in the summertime and in the fall. And I had to go up a few weeks ago and I was like, oh, it's going to be so gross because it's stick season. It's not going to be that nice.

But I was there and it was so gorgeous and it was so quiet and so serene. And I was like, this actually might have been my favorite reporting trip up here because it's just quiet. And, you know, they're relatively there are so many evergreen and perennials in these forests that they're so lush and beautiful. So as you get into dispersed camping up here, that could be that could be interesting.

Zoey Knox: As someone who is not the camping friend, I have a tip for the camping friends. My my friends know this when going to an activity, it's is it going to be cold? What are the vibes and will there be food? And so when when you know if you're like hello group chat, I've come to you with an offer. The things you want to sell. Where where are we going? Are there good views? There'll be some mores. I'll bring you guys blankets, you know, and then. And then just watch those replies roll in.

Nate Hegyi: And don't forget that you can send us your tips for finding joy outside, no matter what time of year or what the weather is like outside. Our email is outsidein@nhpr.org. Be back in a minute.

[mux and break]

Nate Hegyi: Welcome back to Outside/In. I'm Nate Hegyi and this is our little end of the year tradition, our fifth annual ‘surthrival’ special. We are transitioning to the part where we give ourselves some slack, and we recommend our favorite TV shows or movies. I mean, they don't have to be new. They don't even have to be quote unquote fun, just engaging enough to pass those hours when you really don't want to go outside. Uh, Zoey, why don't you start us off again?

Zoey Knox: I would love to recommend a little Netflix rom com TV show called home for Christmas. Everyone is all Euro summer this Euro summer that. Let me put you on Scandinavian winter. It's in Norwegian, so. Subtitle Enjoyers rise up. It has lovely rom com tropes. Lots of Christmas decor. Cozy Scandinavian scenes. In the first episode, we meet our main character, Johanna. She's in, you know, the classic rom com position of her siblings are all married and have kids. She feels like her friends are getting married and having kids. Her parents are always saying, when are you going to get a boyfriend? When are you going to get a boyfriend? There's this big family dinner scene. Her siblings are there, her family is there, and she blurts out from the end of the table, I have a boyfriend. And everyone goes, okay, bring him to Christmas. And she essentially has a few weeks to find a boyfriend and invite him to Christmas dinner.

Taylor Quimby: I love the bad date montage before the like, Prince charming comes in.

Zoey Knox: And I'm so good.

Taylor Quimby: Yeah, I actually have a clip. Do we want to hear? This is just from the trailer, but this is that scene, I think. Let's hear it.

[clip from trailer, in Norwegian]

Taylor Quimby: So Norwegian.

Nate Hegyi: It’s so Norwegian.

Zoey Knox: Learn a little Norwegian slang. It's good for you.

Kate Dario: Hear a little Knock off Charli XCX at the end. It's perfect. It's perfect.

Nate Hegyi: Do you think that they will remake this? I feel like every modest foreign hit these days is eventually, like, remade with, like, Will Ferrell. And I guess it wouldn't be Will Ferrell anymore.

Taylor Quimby: He’s kind of past the romcom stage…

Zoey Knox: I would like to come out staunchly against English language remakes. If you are really feeling so inclined, you can watch it dubbed in English. But I want to hear the Norwegian. I want to hear them greeting each other in Norwegian. I feel like that is creating the immersive vibe for me.

Taylor Quimby: I'm plus one.

Kate Dario: Is the show very “hygge?” Is that how you say it?

Zoey Knox: You know, I'm not going to claim to know how to pronounce that correctly, but yes, it's the embracing winter they have. There's a very silly and cute scene about a I don't know what you would call this thing, but it's essentially two mittens that are welded together so you can hold hands in your mittens.

Kate Dario: I love a knitwear trope in a rom com.

Zoey Knox: You know I do too.

[trailer clip swell and fades]

Nate Hegyi: So Zoey's got “Home for Christmas.” That's on Netflix?

Zoey Knox: It is

Nate Hegyi: Perfect. Uh, Taylor, what do you got?

Taylor Quimby: I want to recommend a show that I think is very popular, but is also very under the radar. I felt a little nervous about it because I was like, maybe everybody's seen this already. It is called Somebody Somewhere. It is streaming on HBO or shall I say, Max? And it stars Bridget Everett as Sam Miller, his woman living in her hometown of Manhattan, Kansas. Her sister has died. She's in mourning. She's kind of a mess. She works at a job that she totally hates. Her family is really complicated.

But what I love about the show is it really centers this platonic, loving friendship that she develops with this guy named Joel, played by Jeff Hiller. Their dynamic is, like, so genuine and really funny. Um, I just want to play this one scene. This is from the first season. It's between Sam and Jeff, and they are tailing Sam's brother in law because she is convinced that he's dealing drugs and her friend is driving.

Joel: So. Oh, wait, I'm just gonna let this guy go.

Sam: Joel, no. No, no. Go around or we're gonna lose him.

Joel: Well, no, I can't go around. What about oncoming traffic?

Sam: You just said that there were no other cars. Joel hit it!

Joel: No no no no no. It’s too risky.

Sam: It's not risky.You can't hesitate. Just pull out and go around. You can do it.

Joel and Sam chanting: Don't hesitate. Don't hesitate. Don't hesitate.

Sam: Hit it!

Joel: I'm sorry I hesitated. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

Taylor Quimby: And there's also this very musical component to the show. The woman who plays Sam is this sort of legendary cabaret performer. So throughout there are these, like, really wonderful performances. Some of them are really comedic. Some of them are kind of dramatic.

[music clip from Somebody Somewhere]

Taylor Quimby: But anyway, both. Both of these clips are from the first season. The third one just came out though, and just I think it's ten out of ten, a life affirming show.

Nate Hegyi: So it's kind of like it reminds me a little bit of like, at least like the vibe of, like what? Ted Lasso..

Taylor Quimby: Ted Lasso season one..

Nate Hegyi: Yeah, we're not talking season two.

Taylor Quimby: But yes, I mean, I think it's a feel-good show. I could tell more about the plot, but there's almost no point. Not because it's not interesting, but because it is truly a show about relationships.

Nate Hegyi: You had me at that one song. What is that song? Don't give up...

Taylor Quimby:. It's Peter Gabriel with Kate Bush.

Nate Hegyi: Right.

Kate Dario: That sounds great. I have not seen it, but it's been on my list because I have a love hate relationship with Lena Dunham's Girls, and Bridget Everett has a cameo as the makeup artist at Marnie's wedding in season five, which is totally off the dome. This is just again showing. Maybe I should expand my max viewing sometimes, but this sounds lovely because she is very funny in that.

Zoey Knox: So bold of you to bring girls into the space, but I, I respect, I think life-affirming show sounds great because my instinct in the winter is to go home and rewatch Yellowjackets and we can't. That's not sustainable. And so I think to have a life affirming show on deck is lovely.

Taylor Quimby: Palate cleanser.

Kate Dario: Habit stacking.

Zoey Knox: And some would say that I invented habit stacking.

[mux from show swells and fades]

Nate Hegyi: Somebody somewhere?

Taylor Quimby:

Nate Hegyi: Alright, so Somebody Somewhere. And that's on Max?

Taylor Quimby: Yes.

Nate Hegyi: Um, Kate, what do you got?

Kate Dario: Well, I'm going to combine the two aspects of Zoey's recommendations and Taylor's, and take a show about friendship on Max and in a foreign language, and recommend My Brilliant Friend the adaptation that is on Max. So. Okay. The book series. This is based on the like, worldwide phenomenon book series called the Neapolitan Novels, the first one which is My Brilliant Friend.

But I'm recommending the TV show, which I think is criminally slept on and I think is so amazing and so good. Basically, it's about these two lifelong female friends who are raised in this really tumultuous neighborhood in 1950s Naples, and it follows them for their entire life. It's in Italian, it's in Neapolitan. You get to see a lot of Italy. You get to see a lot of drama. It's funny. It's beautifully shot. It has amazing costumes, it has amazing performances. It's an epic. You can get swept up in it. And I think it's great for the winter when you want to be somewhere different in time and place.

Now the final season just wrapped, so you have four seasons waiting for you to just get swept up in Ferrante Fever. That's the author of the book, and it's great.

Taylor Quimby: Do we want to hear another foreign language clip? Because I have one.

Zoey and Kate: Obviously. Obviously.

Taylor Quimby: Okay.

[trailer clip from My Brilliant Friend]

Nate Hegyi: Honestly, until halfway through that clip I thought that this was set in Naples, Florida.

Zoey: Oh!

Nate Hegyi: And then I was like why are they speaking Italian? And I was like, I guess I was like, oh, Naples, Italy.

Zoey Knox: Wow.

Kate Dario: The poor man's Naples.

Taylor Quimby: It was hard, because I was trying to pull a clip from this and it's like, do you pull the quiet moment or do you pull the passionate moment with the epic music, which I think was kind of what you're saying here?

Kate Dario: If you're like, you know, my family's Italian, and I think that there's some ancestral urge in me to, like, hear people yell in Neapolitan. This will fill that urge for you. There's a lot there's a lot of yelling. There's a lot of throwing. Your husband's out the door. There's a lot of drama. And it's fun to see. It's fun to see.

Zoey Knox: Sounds lovely because I think, you know there are two wolves inside me when it comes to my winter TV viewing, one which wants more winter. I want to watch shows where it's cold. Outside there's snow. People are sort of leaning into their winter feelings and the other half like, I want something that's going to transport me to another place in another time. And this seems like the perfect show for that.

[trailer clip swells and fades]

Nate Hegyi: Okay, My Brilliant Friend is set in Naples, Italy, not Naples, Florida.

Kate Dario: Streaming on Max.

Nate Hegyi: Perfect. My recommendation is not a show. It's a thing you can do with media, which is creating playlists for friends. So we are inundated with algorithms. They tell us what shows to watch, what music we listen to. Like, every week I get my new music playlist from Apple, and it's just like music that the algorithm picks, or that somebody spent some money to get filtered in there. Yeah. And I think building a playlist is a really fun way to kill time and to expose people to new music. So a couple of ground rules for building a playlist. You got to think about flow. You know, this is a playlist that should not be shuffled. Vibe playlist has to have a vibe like that doesn't mean all ballads or all like Chappell Roan.

Taylor Quimby: All waltzes.Three time.

Taylor and Nate, chanting: 123, 123, 123!

Nate Hegyi: I kind of want to make a waltz playlist now. So, it's got to, you know, it's got to have an energy about it, right? It can be moody. It can be bittersweet, joyful, whatever you're feeling, it's got to have a vibe. And then also, I think a great playlist has a surprise, like a curveball. Dig into an artist's resume, find that deep cut, surprise your friend.

And so, with this in mind, I actually want to create an Outside/In playlist for Stick Season. Yeah. And so I'm going to recruit each of you to suggest a song right off the top. We have to have Noah Kahan's stick season. As much as I don't like that song, it's got to be in there.

Taylor Quimby: We're saying his name, right? Right. Is it Noah Kahn or Noah Kahan?

Zoey Knox: There's no way of knowing.

Kate Dario: There's no way to know something like that.

Zoey Knox: That’s between him and God.

Taylor Quimby: OK, stick season, that's on there.

Nate Hegyi: And then I want to nominate a Christmas song. Christmas more and more these days is stick season. It's kind of gross. It's slushy. So that's why I am nominating Hard Candy Christmas by Dolly Parton.

Have you heard this?

Zoey Knox: Yes.

Kate Dario: I have not, but I love me some dolly.

[clip from Hard Candy Christmas]

Taylor Quimby: Gotta love that when the drums come in.

Speaker6: Oh, yeah. It's so.

Nate Hegyi: Great. That was your first time hearing it?

Kate Dario: First time hearing it. Last year, at the end of Priscilla Sofia Coppola's new movie, they played the dolly version of I Will Always Love You, which I think does not get enough, and like that brought me back into like a dolly, I was like her voice, like, God, she's amazing.

Nate Hegyi: Oh my God, that song, that version is [grunts in admiration].

Zoey Knox: I am ready to submit my song recommendation. I was stressed when you asked, but now I'm ready. Okay, my Christmas playlist, which I'm rather proud of and have been working on for several years, has a real hard candy Christmas vibe. There's a lot of Phoebe Bridgers. My surprise song on that playlist is Manhattan by Cat power, which is not a Christmas song.

I don't know if I saw it in a movie that took place during Christmas, but to me it is now a Christmas song and it is the upbeat song on the playlist. It has the energy to me like Kate does on her midday walks, putting on the big headphones you're wearing like a stylish scarf slung over your shoulder and your speed walking somewhere there's a coffee in your hand. It's like the snow is falling, but in a cute way. Not like your nose is running and like your face is all wet.

[song plays]

Kate Dario: One thing I think is slept on about winter is that there's more night. And more night means there's more time to dance. So I think that there we can have a pivot here. And, you know, shout out to all these ballads and being sad in the winter. But also you can dance.

And Zoey especially has witnessed in the newsroom since the arrival of brat Summer, I have taken on a side hustle of being a Charli XCX consultant for people, because I am a long term big, big Charli fan. So I think a deep cut of hers that I think balances a little bit of this winter sadness to fit in, but also I Think You Can Dance To is from her first album, True Romance, and it's called Stay Away. Sort of a tortured, crying on the dance floor romance.

Nate Hegyi: This is gonna be, like the pick me up song where you're just like, all right…

Zoey Knox: Uh, she said, “crying on the dance floor.”

Nate Hegyi: Yeah, but crying on the dance floor is like, I guess it's like a different pick me up, right?

[song plays]

Taylor Quimby: I guess I'll probably bring it down some. But maybe not, like, Elliott Smith down. But I'm a big fan of Big Thief. I've been getting into them the past couple of years. And um, from what is the album? It’s Dragon New Warm Mountain I Believe in You. And I have to think about this because either Spud Infinity or Certainty… They're just both like tracks are both emotional, but a little bit jaunty. I don't know, it just fits into that folk vibe that kind of like, makes me happy and sad.

Nate Hegyi: When I was writing like, my notes for this playlist, like literally Big Thief was the band. I was like, yeah, they're like the ultimate Stick season band.

[Certainty, by Big Thief plays]

Taylor Quimby: I have a generational question. Because, Nate, you and I are like elder millennials. TZoey and Kate, you guys are Gen Z?

Kate Dario: Squarely, yeah.

Zoey Knox: I claim Gen Z millennial cusper. I'm gonna. I'm gonna be that person.

Taylor Quimby: Okay, well, this is good then. I'm just curious, because at least when I was a kid, like, making CDs and tapes was so big. You did it for your friends. You definitely did it for your romantic interests. Like, you know, making a mixtape was a sign of interest.

And I'm just curious, having grown up more clearly in the digital world, whether or not that's still felt like a big part of your, like, teenage years.

Zoey Knox: So, I don't know about teenage years. I have a lot of mixtapes that, like my parents made or like CDs that I burned from the library and then like onto another CD or I think now I love a collaborative playlist. Making a playlist for someone is very fun, but I also think making a playlist with someone can be very sweet.

Kate Dario: Yeah. That's awesome.

Nate Hegyi: Yeah, that was not something that we did as much as a kid. Or at least I didn't. Was like making playlists together, you know? I didn't even, like, think about the fact that you can do collaborative playlists just like on Spotify.

Kate Dario: I would say it's not that uncommon now. Like, I'm going to a birthday party tonight, for example, and there's a party full invite, which is sort of the new digital like party invite platform. And like people will often be like, this is the playlist, like add something to it, like in the invite to a party I think has become. Yeah. Which is interesting.

Taylor Quimby: I remember getting a tape that was a mix of Just Badly Drawn Boy and Coldplay from a high school girlfriend.

Nate Hegyi: And just dated yourself.

Taylor Quimby: Well, I just always think of that tape whenever I hear those songs.

[mux plays]

Nate Hegyi: Uh, I'm gonna get some more recommendations for this playlist, and then we're going to put it in the show notes, and it'll also be on Spotify. I think I'm going to title it like… Outside/In stick season playlist? That's a really clever title. You’ll be able to find it on Spotify and in our show notes.

[break]

Nate Hegyi: Okay, our final category: crafts, games… Any activities or ideas that keep you busy indoors but not on a screen. Kate, why don't you kick it off?

Kate Dario: Yeah. Okay, so I have been reading Ina Garten's new memoir, Be Ready When the Luck Happens. And it is the, like, literary equivalent of her handing you a fresh baked tray of brownies. It is comforting. It is fun. It also has many layers to it. You learn kind of a new aspect of someone who, like for me, has been part of my life forever. Some of my earliest memories are watching the Barefoot Contessa with my mom, or reading her cookbooks.

Clip of Ina Garten from The Barefoot Contessa: A little bit of red pepper flakes like a quarter of a teaspoon. You don't want to burn people. You just want a little underline.

Kate Dario: And then what's fun about the book is you really get to learn even more as a person and less as kind of this character of just living easy. Um, there are a lot of funny moments. There was this particular clip that went viral on Twitter that was, like I was sent it by a million people, because I think I clearly made my brand very clear. And my group chat said, that we have a little book club, this was sent in the group chat where like, this just hopped way up our to read list because this is so funny. Warning it's a different side of Ina than you might be used to. It's a little racy. If there's any kids in the room.

Taylor Quimby: Skip ahead like 15 seconds and you'll be fine.

Ina Garten, reading from her book: I followed him. Pretty stupid, I now realize. And he asked me if I wanted some blow. I thought, you want me to do what? I thought he was tipping me. It sounded like this was going the wrong way around until I realized that blow was cocaine. Hmm. I remember going back to the store to slice some smoked salmon that morning, and I sliced it really fast.

Nate Hegyi: Her read on that is just amazing.

Kate Dario: I know I have a library copy of the book, but I'm like, I think I need to invest in the audiobook because I think I might be missing something. And I think that could be another thing to do to add to the list. Recommend the audiobook.

Taylor Quimby: I also like this idea of memoir and cookbook because, you know, sometimes I get a good cookbook, I make a few recipes, and then it gets on the cookbook shelf and then it stays there.

Kate Dario: Ina does kind of decadent flavors and decadent recipes. Super, super well. I literally threw a dinner party this weekend because she was talking about coconut cupcakes, and I was like, if I don't make a coconut cake this weekend, like, I don't think I'll make it. And I did just that and it was so good.

Nate Hegyi: Ina Garten… “Be Ready When the Luck Happens.” Zoey.

Zoey Knox: I am not the first girl to ever have a pen pal, but I would just like to put forth in front of you, once again, that writing letters is so fun. And as an adult, most of the mail I get is either packages I ordered for myself, which is great for me, but not great for my finances and bills. And that is so boring. And the joy of opening up my little mailbox and seeing that I have a letter from a friend is so fun. It recreates that shopping feeling, but it's free. It's a really fun way to stay in touch.

I also use this as my craft time. So if you want to rip out a piece of notebook paper and write a letter and put it in a security envelope and send it away. I think that is lovely. That is not for me. There is a tornado in my living room when I am writing letters. Everything's coming out. I've got the fancy pens, I have stickers, I have stamps, I got a wax seal for Christmas a couple of years ago.

Taylor Quimby: Oh yeah.

Zoey Knox: And when I tell you the way this has leveled up my game, the feeling of pressing a seal onto an envelope, setting off a piece of mail with your seal on it feels so bougie, I can't even describe it. It's so fun. It's craft time. It kind of feels like journaling. It's a fun way to stay in touch with people and getting a little surprise letter in the mail. How lovely.

Speaker6: So, wait, what is.

Nate Hegyi: What does your seal look like? Is it like a Z?

Zoey Knox: Well, I have two seals. Not to brag, I have one that's a flower and one that's a sort of cursive fancy Z with some little, little florals.

Taylor Quimby: I don't think you can stamp an envelope or wax seal without feeling a little bit like a wizard. Like, that's just so cool.

Zoey Knox: How often do you get mail with a wax seal on it? I think it's very fun.

Taylor Quimby: I think approximately never in my life.

Zoey Knox: I'll send you guys some mail.

Kate Dario: I think this is amazing because I love writing letters. And also like if you take the initiative to write a letter, you will start getting letters, which is amazing. So it's like give and you shall receive.

Nate Hegyi: That's making me very inspired because I just moved from Montana to New England and, you know, my whole community of friends and everything else like that is over there. And I've been like, how do I keep in touch with them? Like in a meaningful way?

Nate Hegyi: Oh, man. So, writing letters to friends. Great way to connect. Also spread some gossip in a real slow way. I love it. Um, speaking of friends, my recommendation. Especially if you're like me and you're getting older and you know your friend group is dispersed across the country, it's time to make new friends is to do trivia nights at breweries specifically.

So I have, since we've moved here, we've noticed that it seems like every brewery has like a weekly trivia night. And I am not a homebody. I hate hanging out by myself in the dark. I can only watch so many shows before I'm like, I need to get out of this house right now. I am so bored. And so it's weekly, normally by like an hour, hour and a half. You really need to try the different trivia nights out because sometimes the mix can be absolutely terrible. The sound is terrible. It's just like a bunch of like, people way back here talking and you can't understand anything they're saying. And, uh, you know, they get broken up into teams and you can join a team.

Taylor Quimby: A lot of regulars at trivia nights. That's a great way to meet people because, you know, you'll see some of the same folks week after week.

Nate Hegyi: Exactly, like we just did one in Gorham at Big Day Brewery. We were invited by some of Christine, my wife's, uh, coworkers, and it was so great. I was like, this is amazing. And I got the, uh, the final question, right, because it was about, uh, the official language of Hungary, and my family's from Hungary, and I was like, yes.

Zoey Knox: Oh, follow follow up: Is it not Hungarian?

Kate Dario: My Magyar is a little rusty these days. I just lost my Duolingo streak, but I'll catch up.

Zoey Knox: Nate, do you have a category that comes up in trivia where you think, “everybody sit down – I've got this one.”

Nate Hegyi: Oh, man. If it was like 90s movie trivia, I would be like, Bing! Better yet, if it's like 90s political thriller trivia, I am like, I'm good. Like, I can have an encyclopedic knowledge of, like, directors and actors from a very specific time period that is completely not useful information, except for on a weekly trivia night at a brewery.

Zoey Knox: Okay, I'm taking I'm taking notes to build to draft my own trivia team.

Kate Dario: You're building an elite squad.

[mux]

Nate Hegyi: Taylor, what do you got? Round us out.

Taylor Quimby: Okay, um, so I am circling back to the very first search. Rival folks know that there's a contingent of NBR board game aficionados led by Nick Capodice at Civics 101. He got me into the hobby, so the first year I recommended a couple games, I am back with one that feels just right for outside in. Um, and here it is on the floor.

Zoey Knox: A prop!

Taylor Quimby: So this midi box is arc Nova and it is a zoo building game. You and the other players are essentially like acquiring zoo animals for your zoo, building different shaped enclosures. You know, like big animals need big enclosures. Little animals need little ones. Um, you know, there's a special petting zoo and it's kind of complex. Like you're also like, partnering with other zoos or universities. You're funding conservation projects.

So if you have not played a board game since, like Safari or Monopoly when you were a kid, this probably wouldn't be the one to start with. But if you are into like Settlers of Catan or Wingspan or some of these other a little bit more complex games, I think Ark Nova will be great for you. Uh, it's also just like got beautiful decks of animal cards. So I'm gonna open one of these up as a little prop and pass this around. You guys can see all these amazing cards.

Kate Dario: Seeing Sloth Bear off the bat, and I'm all in.

Taylor Quimby: What do you have?

Zoey Knox: I have a bluespotted ribbontail ray.

Nate Hegyi: Yes, that's a great name.

Speaker6: It's a lovely.

Zoey Knox: Name.

Nate Hegyi: I feel like one of the downsides of complicated board games, though, when you have friends over, is like, there's always like the the lengthy, like explanation of, like how it works. Like, how long do you think you would take to explain this to a group of people?

Taylor Quimby: This is a game that I find is harder to learn how to play than it is to teach someone else how to play. That being said, to your point, I would not throw a party with this game. This is great for some, like one other person, maybe your partner, maybe like a good friend, a family member, you do not want to invite people over randomly and then open this box and be like, this is what we're up to. They don't like it.

Nate Hegyi: Okay.

Taylor Quimby: Um, my one critique is that as complicated as it is, it just doesn't actually maybe think about any of the ethical issues that we've covered on the show about, you know, how we should feel about zoos.

Zoey Knox: I hadn't had a passing thought about zoos in years, but I went to the National Zoo with shout out outside and producer Felix Poon. And and it was and it was incredible. And I feel like I often forget that there's so much more to zoos than just the physical space which I'm preaching to the choir. You all, you all know this, but you came to me at the right time with this pitch.

Taylor Quimby: Well, if you have four hours on a Sunday, you just just let me know, because I'm happy to teach this one to you anytime.

[mux]

Nate Hegyi: So before we wrap up our fifth ‘surthrival,’ we just had Thanksgiving. And however you feel about the holiday, I am definitely a fan of practicing gratitude, so I'm wondering if to wrap things up, everybody can just quickly share something that they're grateful for.

Taylor Quimby: Well, this is an easy one, but I'm getting married. I am very grateful to have found a very loving partner, but also because I'm planning a wedding. I'm really grateful for all my family and friends and people who are coming to see us. And I think particularly around the holidays, it's like we have maybe added a little more stress to people's lives, but I hope it's worth it. And, um, and um, yeah, I'm really grateful for folks who show up for each other and I feel really blessed.

Nate Hegyi: That's great. That's beautiful.

Kate Dario: Yeah, not particularly original, but I feel like this time of year I've really been getting really excited about sharing as I am a big enough fan, a lot of great food with my friends in my life, and it's been really wonderful. And I just love that. This is a time where you can take, you know, more space to pause and to cook and just have a lot of fun with my friends. And I just feel very grateful to have a lot of wonderful and fun people in my life to weather these, these cold, lonely nights.

Nate Hegyi: Uh, I am grateful to planes, uh, because this is one of my first times living so far away from family and friends and the ability to hop on a plane at Boston Logan and be there within, like, ten hours is just amazing. And I'm just incredibly grateful for that mode of travel, you know, climate crisis aside, I am very grateful that I can see family and friends and keep connected.

Zoey Knox: I am very grateful for I'm a beverage person. I'm that person who has more beverages in their fridge than food and the seasonal offerings of winter in terms of beverages, the hot chocolate, the tea. I've been getting real into mulled wine, the mulled wine. It's so fun and can be my go to. And I'm gathering with my friends, as always. Should we go get coffee? And so I'm grateful for the seasonal beverage offerings and the opportunities to come together that they bring.

Taylor Quimby: How do you feel about the spiked Dunkin Donuts latte, pumpkin spice lattes that I've seen in the store?

Zoey Knox: I'm just hearing of this right now, and my instinct is no.

Kate Dario: I do kind of have anti-fast food across the board, except the Massachusetts and me runs deep. I would trust Dunkin with anything. I think I genuinely think their sausage, egg and cheese on a croissant is gourmet. So I bet that actually sounds great. I'll be the contrarian here.

Nate Hegyi: Thank you so much for sharing your tips. Fingers crossed for a good stick season listeners, if you want to share your. Survival tips. Our email is outsidein@nhpr.org and our phone hotline is 1844 Go Otter.

You can also find our Full Stick Season Spotify playlist in the show notes. We'll also post it to our Facebook group. You can join us there. Just search outside-in.